Corporate Loyalty.....Does it EVEN EXISTS ?????

[WitchKing]

Is there such a thing as loyalty to a company, such a thing as appreciating what the company has done for you, of acknowledging that the company that is currently paying your wages, made you what you are today, so much so that you are being coveted by others, that if successfull, would essentially mean that they are leeching off the benefits that the current company has financially and professionally invested in you, by paying you higher than what you are getting right now..

Is this right, is this wrong, or is this just the law of the concrete jungle, ...of every dapper business suit for himself........?????? ...and the company has to deal with your departure as 'TOUGH..., that life."

Ponder this with me........

[SS2006]

Is there such a thing as loyalty to a company, such a thing as appreciating what the company has done for you, of acknowledging that the company that is currently paying your wages, made you what you are today, so much so that you are being coveted by others, that if successfull, would essentially mean that they are leeching off the benefits that the current company has financially and professionally invested in you, by paying you higher than what you are getting right now..

Is this right, is this wrong, or is this just the law of the concrete jungle, ...of every dapper business suit for himself........?????? ...and the company has to deal with your departure as 'TOUGH..., that life."

Ponder this with me........

Blehhhh....:rolleyes:

[Lava Gal]

nowdays if someone has been wif a company for FIVE years, tat is considered an achievement! :p

[shiruikage]

i believe in corporate loyalty, but i was kinda persuaded by my supervisors that loyalty doesn't pay well.

so...no such thing.

[JC]

nope... no such thing.
Both employer and employee are leeching off each other for survival....

unless, of course, you are your own employer....

[Lava Gal]

its a man eat man world! :(

[WitchKing]

its a man eat man world! :(

...that does NOT sound at all appealing....

I happen to think at least from where I am currently working, that they've invested a LOT in my prof development......the month on month pay are nothing to scream about.....but they are in NO way skinflints when we asked to be sent for relevent work courses......so yeah, at least on my part, a significant slice of you wants to appreciate what they've done for you, but you have to consider the opportunities presented, as well as the need to give your family a better life any chance you get......what a conundrum to be in, and its not at all a fun thing to be considering when the actual time comes when you have to effectively turn your back on them.


...this is in now way reflective of those firms that treat their employees like pig turds, to which they should not just be ridded of but also have the buildings torched with flameable cowdungs soaked in kerosene.

nope... no such thing.
Both employer and employee are leeching off each other for survival....

unless, of course, you are your own employer....


sooooo-errrrr....does that mean that if you're a jerk boss, that you'd be jerking yourself off on a daily basis :huh: ??

[bizzi]

Employees trade hours for dollars..

Employers trade risk for profit..

If your employer invests in your professional development, he is actually trying to reduce his risk of you being unproductive, or redundant.

If you become more productive at work, your employer makes more profit.

In the end it's up to your own viewpoint.

You can choose to see that your employer has improved your employability, and you appreciate the trust and investment.

Or you can choose to see that your employer is only looking out for their own interest, and trying to make the most profit from your hard work.


Personally, i choose the latter.. and that's why i am not an employee.

[Odysseus]

loyalty = yr salary vs yr contribution. Once you see their an inbalance which is not to your favor, pack and go:eek: But you have to face the real world out there.

[WitchKing]

so is pretty much EVERYBODY would be jumping ship once the next gravy train calls on da station without a second thot?

[JC]

That depends much on how rich the gravy is for me to leech....

[laineyee]

Pretty different trend, my dad has been working in the same company since he started work and he is still there.

Now, if your work is not challenging/flexible/paid well, change jobs.

According to research the different trends between the baby boomers and the echo boomers.

[Sila]

loyalty = yr salary vs yr contribution. Once you see their an inbalance which is not to your favor, pack and go:eek: But you have to face the real world out there.

i think this is a fair equation. i did this equation before i left my old company (that i had been with for 5 years) - and they were making berkali kali ganda what they paid me (no raise for 4 years, crap bonus, etc.) and they rubbed it in my face because i actually knew what they were billing the clients for my time.

i don't think it's a matter of being ungrateful - it also is a matter of growing. and in the end, if the old company is making you unhappy, you have to think of your family, your future, and if all the equations lean in one direction, you gots to go with it.

now if you ARE happy with your company, it makes the equation much harder to make.

[SS2006]

so is pretty much EVERYBODY would be jumping ship once the next gravy train calls on da station without a second thot?

Oh well....there will be 2nd thought, 3rd thoughts....a lot of factors to consider, depending on what your priority are....but corporate loyalty will never ever even enter to the bottom of the list of the factors to consider.

[bizzi]

back then, if you decide to switch jobs after 2 years, people would say.. "what's wrong with you? no commitment? no loyalty? cannot get along with your colleagues?"

now, if you decide to stay on after 2 years, people would say.. "what's wrong with you? no ambition? can't take on the real world? redundant?"

sigh.. people are strange..

[bizzi]

in every business, this is the equation..

staff contribution > staff salary

that's because

business expense = staff salary + rent + cost of goods + utilities + directors fees + profits + taxes + etc etc etc..

so, it's simple economic maths that staff contribution (business revenue) has to be > than staff salary

so ppl should stop sulking about being not being paid what they are worth..

[Lava Gal]

elaine is rite, my dad oso same...since after navy working for same company all along. maybe its the generation gap oso la.

for older generation: got job tat pays --> can support family = contentment

younger generation: ambitious --> knows there's abundant opportunity out there --> daring, adventurous, risk taking

...the rest i need not say

[shiruikage]

elaine is rite, my dad oso same...since after navy working for same company all along. maybe its the generation gap oso la.

for older generation: got job tat pays --> can support family = contentment

younger generation: ambitious --> knows there's abundant opportunity out there --> daring, adventurous, risk taking
...the rest i need not say

i disagree. i think its:
younger generation: ambitious -->knows there are labor laws, cekik the boss kau kau, and then complain the boss is stupid, and get a reason to jump ship to another high paying job with another stupid boss.

a simple reason why ppl just company is becoz they thinks its galmour job or coz the work pays well (without actually thinking a very hard work is involved), get stuck there for a few years all the while hating the job more and more, then finally, quit. there is a word to describe them...losers.

[JC]

Divert a little bit.

There was a study done in the US. Can't recall that study but what came out of that study is that generally employees leave the company because of their managers.
Bad bosses must have been a high contributing factor for attrition...

[WitchKing]

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-1031863.html?tag=nl.e106

should be good reading, this.

[Big Chief]

Our Company teaches Corporate Loyalty...
I have to believe in it.
However, it only works if the BOSS is a 'people' person.
This topic deals with attitudes and it is indeed a complicated subject.
The best way to gain corporate loyalty is to make the company a fun and feasable place to work in. Staff fealthfare must be considered a high priority (including their salary). Only then can Corporate Loyalty exist.

its a man eat man world! :(
What about the women..?
so is pretty much EVERYBODY would be jumping ship once the next gravy train calls on da station without a second thot?
Big Chief pity those who believes in this culture/fad

[SS2006]

Our Company teaches Corporate Loyalty...
I have to believe in it.
However, it only works if the BOSS is a 'people' person.
This topic deals with attitudes and it is indeed a complicated subject.
The best way to gain corporate loyalty is to make the company a fun and feasable place to work in. Staff fealthfare must be considered a high priority (including their salary). Only then can Corporate Loyalty exist.


What about the women..?

Big Chief pity those who believes in this culture/fad

Problem is most bosses are employee themselves. And they'll take care of their own arse 1st before their subordinate's, and those at the higher ladder will always get the bigger slice of pie. :(

[WitchKing]

Divert a little bit.

There was a study done in the US. Can't recall that study but what came out of that study is that generally employees leave the company because of their managers.
Bad bosses must have been a high contributing factor for attrition...

see, see? if i do that, i am somehow putting my boss in trouble with HIS boss, "why'd your staff leave, you got problem with him issit, he dun like you issit,.....blaa blaa blaa"

[WitchKing]

Problem is most bosses are employee themselves. And they'll take care of their own arse 1st before their subordinate's, and those at the higher ladder will always get the bigger slice of pie. :(

thats coz they do more and undertake more responsiblity and get screwed worst than their subs....well, usually anyway.

[Big Chief]

Problem is most bosses are employee themselves. And they'll take care of their own arse 1st before their subordinate's, and those at the higher ladder will always get the bigger slice of pie. :(
Great bosses always employ people better than them.
They concentrate on managing and motivating these subordinates.
Bosses described by you do not deserve good and loyal employees.

see, see? if i do that, i am somehow putting my boss in trouble with HIS boss, "why'd your staff leave, you got problem with him issit, he dun like you issit,.....blaa blaa blaa"
Do you want to be kind to your bosses or yourself?

thats coz they do more and undertake more responsiblity and get screwed worst than their subs....well, usually anyway.
Do you want to be a Big Boss one day?

[WitchKing]

Great bosses always employ people better than them.
They concentrate on managing and motivating these subordinates.
Bosses described by you do not deserve good and loyal employees.


Do you want to be kind to your bosses or yourself?

Can i have my cake and eat it too??


Do you want to be a Big Boss one day?

Been there, done that.....

[Sila]

in every business, this is the equation..

staff contribution > staff salary

that's because

business expense = staff salary + rent + cost of goods + utilities + directors fees + profits + taxes + etc etc etc..

so, it's simple economic maths that staff contribution (business revenue) has to be > than staff salary

so ppl should stop sulking about being not being paid what they are worth..

i agree completely - staff contribution is always > staff salary due to the overhead n stuff, plus if company doesn't make money then staff can't make money either when the company goes bust. but when i did the math with my previous company, staff contribution was waaaaay over 6 figures in billable hours and staff was paid a set amount (extra hours = derma free time) that was waaaaay under 6 figures (i finally told my colleagues from other companies who were also working at that particular client my annual salary and they nearly fell off their chairs - they were paid about 2.5-3x more than i was and i was pretty high up on the seniority list). when i was given a much more equitable profit sharing offer from a competitor, i jumped on it. ;)

i'm not asking for more than market price, but if i do the work and get paid 2.5x less than the market, that is more than unfair. my responsibilities went up in the years i worked for the company, but the moratorium on raises on my salary for 4 years kept me in "entree" level salary regardless of the actual work i did.

there's got to be a balance between the fact that staff contribution > staff salary.

[Anson F-Clef]

nowdays if someone has been wif a company for FIVE years, tat is considered an achievement! :p

I roger to what you say, Doctor Lav! Nowadays ppl are getting tooooooo self-motivated to want to be an employee, so they make it a point to learn up networking skills and thereafter, coupled with their own trade/vocation, start up their own biznez and repo and networks start to be built ~ well, this is ONE BIG REALITY in life tho' :D

[alfred98]

As a employer....what we need is total dedicated and honest staff....If the employee got this feel or tendency to jump wagon by a small amount then he or she can go fly kite now itself.....U are fired!!!!!:mad:

[shiruikage]

As a employer....what we need is total dedicated and honest staff....If the employee got this feel or tendency to jump wagon by a small amount then he or she can go fly kite now itself.....U are fired!!!!!:mad:

and yet this is wat eveyone is doing. the boss hopes that the staff will stay with them, but the staff will jump ship at the first opportunity. dilemma no?

now, dedication just wasn't worth the trouble for many ppl. ask anyone who think working in the same company for 3 years wat they wanna do...chances are, they are ready to jump.

[SS2006]

As a employer....what we need is total dedicated and honest staff....If the employee got this feel or tendency to jump wagon by a small amount then he or she can go fly kite now itself.....U are fired!!!!!:mad:

Take this instance....the owner of a company wants total dedicated and honest staff, he realise that good staff important to the growth and productivity of the company, therefore he provides good staff welfare for the worker. Everyone is happy, until one day, one staff has some slight family problem, ie maid ran away, replacement maid not good enough, so go thru the process of replacing one maid after another. During the period, she keeps taking emergency leave and time offs, which is allowed according to the staff code. But then her colleagues who had to cover her work during this period start to feel unsatisfied and start complaining, and this escalate to other depts and some other staff who feel there will never have a chance to use this type of staff welfare will feel jealous and complain about unfairness, and the management wanting to please the majority will revoke these benefits. From that day onward, new regulations come out saying staff not allowed to take emergency leave and time offs. All the staff who complaint before feel happy that they've won....until one fine day, one of them also face some personal problem and need to occasionally take emergency leave and time offs but not approved by the boss.

2nd instance ... happens in my husbands previous company.
They used to have medical benefit for the spouse and children. Children allowed to see specialist without requiring any reference from the panel doctor. One day, they recruited a new HR manager who is single and had no children. In line with the company cost saving drive, she implemented a new regulation...children of staff no longer allowed to claim for medical bills from specialist, must only go to panel doctor. That way the HR manager can show off her achievements in saving cost, and get praised by the management...at the expenses of other staff.

3rd instance, big boss wants to impress the big big boss. Commit a ridiculous date, then force his staff to complete the project in time by working late, throughout the weekend. This may happen too many times until it becomes a norm, and staff who go back on regular time is assumed to be lazy and not committed no matter how much his contribution is.

Deduction:
Point is, most of the time, the unequality is caused by another employee themselves. So what if the company is very good, but if the immediate boss or coligs sucks...you still cannot get loyalty. Especially with the normal assumption among bosses that if you are with the company for very long, it means you die die also will not leave anymore...so no need to reward you for your work anymore.

[Odysseus]

I know of this situation. One manager has performance problem and whenever he is being 'counseled' by his manager. He will always mention that his subordinate is under performing as well. So, his manager asked him this "when I need to fire your subordinate, do i need to fire you as well since you are his manager and also having the same problem?"

What do you think is his answer?

[JC]

Here's a scenario. Project delayed by 24 months but was implemented nevertheless. Customer complain like shit. Customer shun the new system. One month later, project manager was promoted.

Deduction: Siao!!! Jump ship...

[Odysseus]

Here's a scenario. Project delayed by 24 months but was implemented nevertheless. Customer complain like shit. Customer shun the new system. One month later, project manager was promoted.

Deduction: Siao!!! Jump ship...
That's why ppl say bosses are blind wan... :p

[JC]

That's why ppl say bosses are blind wan... :p
Chinese saying worse. Bosses are blind because the eyes grow at the backside... :p

[Oddfather]

Chinese saying worse. Bosses are blind because the eyes grow at the backside... :p

Does your staff say that about you?? :rolleyes: :p

[JC]

Does your staff say that about you?? :rolleyes: :p
I'm not considered a boss... unlike you.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Oddfather]

I'm not considered a boss... unlike you.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

but but but.....you are China and the tealady call you Boss every morning. :p

[JC]

but but but.....you are China and the tealady call you Boss every morning. :p
No wor... the tealady call me "Apamau" every morning... :p ;) hehehe

[Odysseus]

but but but.....you are China and the tealady call you Boss every morning. :p
If anyone wants to be Boss, just come to NKS. Everyone is the Boss :)

[Oddfather]

If anyone wants to be Boss, just come to NKS. Everyone is the Boss :)

nobody call you boss in the opis izit?? is that why you go to NKS everynite??:sus:

[Odysseus]

nobody call you boss in the opis izit?? is that why you go to NKS everynite??:sus:
So true... in office we respect everyone ma... even the office cleaner also must respect :):p

[Oddfather]

So true... in office we respect everyone ma... even the office cleaner also must respect :):p

I hope the office cleaner is the one paying your salary......

[Odysseus]

I hope the office cleaner is the one paying your salary......
Unfortunately, yes wor :p

[Voon Chan]

This is a very interesting thread.
We have to weigh both the push & pull factors before we move.
Line them up & weigh.
There is no absolute measure as to what is right & wrong

[PreciousPearl]

in my own fairly limited experience, there ain't no such thing as corporate loyalty. the worker is there to make a profit or to help the company maintain profit. when the worker's contribution is no longer needed/ appreciated then it's time to move on.

i've always worked on the basis that if it's still fun, it's ok to stay except if the money is not enough to warrant putting up with all that sh!t, then it's time to cabut lari........:squeeze:

[Oddfather]

in my own fairly limited experience, there ain't no such thing as corporate loyalty. the worker is there to make a profit or to help the company maintain profit. when the worker's contribution is no longer needed/ appreciated then it's time to move on.

i've always worked on the basis that if it's still fun, it's ok to stay except if the money is not enough to warrant putting up with all that sh!t, then it's time to cabut lari........:squeeze:

what happens if the worker is no longer needed at an unemployment age....can still cabut and lari??