[CLOSED]The "Dear Thelma" thread...

[LiLiaN]

i'm not here to tell story but to ask question... how do you know when it's real..?

i thought i did with my ex... but we broke up, and now trying to be friends... and turn out, i can't be in his presence for long (24 hours is stretching it!) or we'll start arguing... and no, i'm not bitter over the break up, but it's like i suddenly see all his faults... sigh....

(am i in the right thread to post this?)

[kamkuey]

Wah.. this Q is deep... alka.. your cue

[Alkapocino]

i'm not here to tell story but to ask question... how do you know when it's real..?

i thought i did with my ex... but we broke up, and now trying to be friends... and turn out, i can't be in his presence for long (24 hours is stretching it!) or we'll start arguing... and no, i'm not bitter over the break up, but it's like i suddenly see all his faults... sigh....

(am i in the right thread to post this?)
Start telling your story and you're definitely in the right thread. :p

Wah.. this Q is deep... alka.. your cue
Uncle, don't underestimate the people in this forum..all very "keng". Need to ask tactful questions... :p

[siewjang]

i'm not here to tell story but to ask question... how do you know when it's real..?

i thought i did with my ex... but we broke up, and now trying to be friends... and turn out, i can't be in his presence for long (24 hours is stretching it!) or we'll start arguing... and no, i'm not bitter over the break up, but it's like i suddenly see all his faults... sigh....

(am i in the right thread to post this?)
Lilian, sit down. Get a piece of paper and write down the pros and cons of him and being with him. But you have just written down all the cons here. If you think that he's not the right man for you, look for others. We are not in your shoes to speak for you. You have to decide yourself. This is least that i can advise. It's still not too late to back out. Some couple just close one eye and simply hantam. I mean married la. And end of the day, it's a broken marriage. Many will say, i will try to accept him. That is wrong. Marriage is about accepting and not trying. I'm talking about marriage cos every courting couples are looking forward to be man and women.

[LiLiaN]

Start telling your story and your are definitely in the right thread. :p

hmm... lemme see... boy on student exchange... boy meets girl... go for dates... start a relationship... boy went back... long distance relationship (this is probably where the bad part starting)... challenging time... still going well (enough)... boy wondered if there's someone better out there... relationship broke down... but nothing suitable out there... boy wants girl back... girl too tired (emotionally) to cope... still go separate ways... end of story...

kinda make me wonder... why people in relationship inevitably think that there may be someone better out there...? a severe case of the grass is greener on the other side..? :rolleyes:

[daBoss]

[Split from the luv thread]

dem chim... very interesting... do continue... this thread has got the potential to break the current record held by the "live from hoxes" thread... :)

[ausman]

My advice is long distant relationship don't go for it... I'm not for it... i had seem some succeeded and some don't.....

Don't seem to be on the high side....

[LiLiaN]

oh dear... dear thelma thread...? can we go dear carrie... (as in SATC carrie bradshaw..hehe...?) ;)

[LiLiaN]

My advice is long distant relationship don't go for it... I'm not for it... i had seem some succeeded and some don't.....

Don't seem to be on the high side....
i will definitely take that on board... but there's fun part to long distance relationship... as in you don't see each other often enough to get bored so quickly... but the down side, you'll also usually be on best behaviour you don't see the bad side until way way way too late...

[daLady]

i will definitely take that on board... but there's fun part to long distance relationship... as in you don't see each other often enough to get bored so quickly... but the down side, you'll also usually be on best behaviour you don't see the bad side until way way way too late...

when you are in love, you don't get bored easily..so if you do...it's probably not the right one.

[Alkapocino]

Being in love..it's lovely. Being seperated you are FREE! :p

Dear Thelma (aka LiLiaN),

What should we do when two friends (buddy) fall in love with the same gal. :confused:

[LiLiaN]

so milady, what would be ideal...? living in a foreign land is not easy, as the perception of relationship here is sooooooooooo different from home... i've seen way too many cases of one night stands here and even more cases of infidelity....

[athena]

lesson to learn is ....can't live with one..but can't live without ... :confused:

[LiLiaN]

Being in love..it's lovely. Being seperated you are FREE! :p

Dear Thelma (aka LiLiaN),

What should we do when two friends (buddy) fall in love with the same gal. :confused:
errm.... this is one of those worse case scenario i think.... i don't suppose this is a good time to say all is fair in love and war...?

then again, it's also up to the girl if she likes either of the guy... if not, problem solve.... everyone stays buddy buddy and go out for the occassional supper, char siu bao and teh tarik....

if she does like one of the two guys, the dejected should bow out gracefully (but this is easier said than done in real life)....

i've seen this kind of thing happen to my friends.. pretty bad idea actually, as the girl i know was quite fickle at the start and kinda mess up both guys... ended up the guys are not talking to each other anymore and i don't get to hang out with all three of them together (it's either with the couple, or with the other guy)....

would daLady want to share some wise words...? :)

[Alkapocino]

How about falling in love with two sisters at the same time?

[athena]

woa!!! this is heavy-weight question... :eek:

[LiLiaN]

How about falling in love with two sisters at the same time?
are you pulling me leg..? how many people are you planning to love..? well, do what all the mafia bosses do... buy two separate residents, seduce them separately and install them in one each... and work out a fair alternating schedule.... :D

now, aunt thelma has to go to attend to the cows... (i.e. boss in at work, gtg!)

[song cm]

How about falling in love with two sisters at the same time?

Hmm..twins some more.... :p

Sounds like Fulat n Linkinfart type of fantasy.....

[Alkapocino]

are you pulling me leg..? how many people are you planning to love..? well, do what all the mafia bosses do... buy two separate residents, seduce them separately and install them in one each... and work out a fair alternating schedule....



It's not my problemo, it's my girlfriend dad's. :D

Thanks anyway for your insights! :p

[Sarah]

haha... hey.. how old is your gf's dad ar??? aiyohh... this kind of "feelings" game... can be the worst nightmare in life man..

[Sarah]

now now now..this thread ngam me ar.... let me begin by analysing wat lilian said first!

[Sarah]

i'm not here to tell story but to ask question... how do you know when it's real..?

i thought i did with my ex... but we broke up, and now trying to be friends... and turn out, i can't be in his presence for long (24 hours is stretching it!) or we'll start arguing... and no, i'm not bitter over the break up, but it's like i suddenly see all his faults... sigh....

(am i in the right thread to post this?)

Love is a very funny thing... love encompasses EVERYTHING.. and most importantly, love is a commitment.. and not just feelings... you will definitely get lots of divorce rates EVERYDAY, if love is solely based on feelings...

[Sarah]

hmm... lemme see... boy on student exchange... boy meets girl... go for dates... start a relationship... boy went back... long distance relationship (this is probably where the bad part starting)... challenging time... still going well (enough)... boy wondered if there's someone better out there... relationship broke down... but nothing suitable out there... boy wants girl back... girl too tired (emotionally) to cope... still go separate ways... end of story...

kinda make me wonder... why people in relationship inevitably think that there may be someone better out there...? a severe case of the grass is greener on the other side..? :rolleyes:

many people are sooo governed by their feelings that they tend to make decisions FIRST before really open up their eyes to see their surroundings or the possibility of being together or even accessing their future together... like for your case... you have to be realistic... love cannot just rule out the distance between you too... only ppl who doesnt think ahead (aint realistic) agree to start a long distance relationship..

That boy (notice that I am not calling him a man) knows that he was just a foreign student, aint gonna be staying for long, started a very irresponsible relationship with the lady, knowing full well that there has to be a long distance relationship in the future.. why ask for trouble??

But of course, I am very flexible with long distance r'ship, course there are many ppl who did make it (but that is they took the risk and staked their time for it)... The question here is, are you sure that this guy will really wait for you? WHy waste ur chance when God knows, he could have sent someone else, who's just beside you??

As for the grass is greener on the other side, no doubt, everyone wants the best. That's the selfish part of human beings.... but the question they never ask themselves is... are they the best themselves? Where do you draw the line of convincing yourself, he/she's the best??

So it proves my point here when I said, love is a commitment, not just feelings. No couples' feelings will be the same, now and 1 or 10 or 20 years later... it is only the promise, commitment, and decision to choose to be with the other person that brings 2 person together...

[Sarah]

so milady, what would be ideal...? living in a foreign land is not easy, as the perception of relationship here is sooooooooooo different from home... i've seen way too many cases of one night stands here and even more cases of infidelity....

this is the best time to talk about christianity.. but I understand that I cannot go too chim in religion (darn...wat a waste!!).. anyway... what I wanna share is.. when you fear someone who's soo much greater than you or ur partner, and you know that eventually you has to answer to Him on being unfaithful, you will not do it. That's why... dun place ur trust in human beings...they ALWAYS fail you... trust in someone or at least something, who will NEVER fail you.

ok ok..back to track... I always think that, women are always at the losing end when it comes to relationship.. we simply have to recognize this.. reason is, we are the weaker being. Nothing to be ashame of, its just how we are being made. When a guy betray us, we will be depressed, and cry thousands of nights... but when a women betray her man, they guy can easily get over it, and look for someone else..

Man... are ALWAYS being unfaithfull, not literally, but even in their minds. they could have commited adultery, millions of times... so, what really matters here? life is always at stake...

[daBoss]

Love is a very funny thing... love encompasses EVERYTHING.. and most importantly, love is a commitment.. and not just feelings... you will definitely get lots of divorce rates EVERYDAY, if love is solely based on feelings...
what talking you? the olympians gods are famous for their polygamy preferences. go back to mount olympia!

anyway, my 2 cents...

love is not a funny thing. love is simple. you either love a person or you don't. how do you know if you love a person? only time will tell... if you're unsure, wait and see.

[LiLiaN]

many people are sooo governed by their feelings that they tend to make decisions FIRST before really open up their eyes to see their surroundings or the possibility of being together or even accessing their future together... like for your case... you have to be realistic... love cannot just rule out the distance between you too... only ppl who doesnt think ahead (aint realistic) agree to start a long distance relationship..

That boy (notice that I am not calling him a man) knows that he was just a foreign student, aint gonna be staying for long, started a very irresponsible relationship with the lady, knowing full well that there has to be a long distance relationship in the future.. why ask for trouble??

But of course, I am very flexible with long distance r'ship, course there are many ppl who did make it (but that is they took the risk and staked their time for it)... The question here is, are you sure that this guy will really wait for you? WHy waste ur chance when God knows, he could have sent someone else, who's just beside you??

As for the grass is greener on the other side, no doubt, everyone wants the best. That's the selfish part of human beings.... but the question they never ask themselves is... are they the best themselves? Where do you draw the line of convincing yourself, he/she's the best??

So it proves my point here when I said, love is a commitment, not just feelings. No couples' feelings will be the same, now and 1 or 10 or 20 years later... it is only the promise, commitment, and decision to choose to be with the other person that brings 2 person together...
maybe i should also mentioned it did work for 2 years...
but 2 years of being attached yet unaccompanied (ie not there all the time to hang out as a couple) can take its toll....

[LiLiaN]

what talking you? the olympians gods are famous for their polygamy preferences. go back to mount olympia!
that's right.... olympian gods are not only polygamous, they also indulge in incest (ie relationship with elements of consanguinity)....

anyway, my 2 cents...

love is not a funny thing. love is simple. you either love a person or you don't. how do you know if you love a person? only time will tell... if you're unsure, wait and see.
i think i'll lay low on the l-o-v-e front for the time being... and keep me eyes open.... :)

[Sarah]

when you are in love, you don't get bored easily..so if you do...it's probably not the right one.

I beg to differ... I believe that's not the right way in viewing relationships... if everyone you meet eventually bores you, so, change gf/bf until you die laa?? When are you gonna settle for THE ONE?? Being in love, does not demand "fun" as a criterion.. true love is never fun... its only lust/flirts/infatuation that's fun... true love takes lots of your time, energy, money, effort, sacrifice... etc..you name it.. Separations/breaking ups/divorces only adds to more problems in the society. Can it ever be something mutual??? RARELY!!! its rarely something mutual about breaking ups, else everyone wouldnt be so affected by it.

I'm an extremely strong believer of monogamy.. and I stand by it.

[Sarah]

aiyah.. ok laa.. ok la.... my nick is just one of the goddess' name, does not mean Im one of them ar.... Athena, maybe we should change our nicks ar...

[Sarah]

love is not a funny thing. love is simple. you either love a person or you don't. how do you know if you love a person? only time will tell... if you're unsure, wait and see.

I just said Love is a funny thing... did I say its complex??? did i?? I do agree its simple, yet funny... wat laa you..

also, even after you wait and see, you could still change ur mind... my emphasis is that, love is based on commitment, not feelings..

[LiLiaN]

It's not my problemo, it's my girlfriend dad's. :D

Thanks anyway for your insights! :p
sorry, didn't mean to be insolent... :(

well, that's tough... but if someone older (and therefore likely to be wiser) have a dilemma like this, who am i, the freshie in the game of love, to say what can be done..? maybe this is a good time to do the pro and cons list..?

[Sarah]

It's not my problemo, it's my girlfriend dad's. :D

Thanks anyway for your insights! :p

yeah...neither can I say anything... siek kau ju mang lau already also dunno wat to do, wat more me??

Did ur gf's dad mistook the twins as the same girl ar?? maybe he did... that's why he's confusing himself now..

[LiLiaN]

I beg to differ... I believe that's not the right way in viewing relationships... if everyone you meet eventually bores you, so, change gf/bf until you die laa?? When are you gonna settle for THE ONE?? Being in love, does not demand "fun" as a criterion.. true love is never fun... its only lust/flirts/infatuation that's fun... true love takes lots of your time, energy, money, effort, sacrifice... etc..you name it.. Separations/breaking ups/divorces only adds to more problems in the society. Can it ever be something mutual??? RARELY!!! its rarely something mutual about breaking ups, else everyone wouldnt be so affected by it.

I'm an extremely strong believer of monogamy.. and I stand by it.
despite my not-so-happily-ever-after event, i still believe love is fun and can be fun... it takes time, sacrifices, etc - very true indeed... but it's worth it at the end of the day... without nurture, it's not something worth keeping is it..? we tend to appreciate things that we have put effort in, not something we get just off the street...

[LiLiaN]

Did ur gf's dad mistook the twins as the same girl ar?? maybe he did... that's why he's confusing himself now..
i think it's just two sisters... is there any truth in the twins thing..? misunderstanding along the way...? :confused:

[Sarah]

despite my not-so-happily-ever-after event, i still believe love is fun and can be fun... it takes time, sacrifices, etc - very true indeed... but it's worth it at the end of the day... without nurture, it's not something worth keeping is it..? we tend to appreciate things that we have put effort in, not something we get just off the street...

actually... it all depends on we are talking too.. not everyone perceive the same thing... psychologist dun say the same thing to different ppl... but yeah.. u are right... when you pour in soo much effort in a relationship, you wouldnt wanna just end it. It is only those who doesnt dare to do anything, can easily back off from a relationship... then again, i dont imply this to everyone... not everyone faces the same thing.

[Sarah]

Love can be a very simple like a very simple menu, when you don't add spices into it.

[LiLiaN]

actually... it all depends on we are talking too.. not everyone perceive the same thing... psychologist dun say the same thing to different ppl... but yeah.. u are right... when you pour in soo much effort in a relationship, you wouldnt wanna just end it. It is only those who doesnt dare to do anything, can easily back off from a relationship... then again, i dont imply this to everyone... not everyone faces the same thing.
so lesson of the day - the more you love, the greater chance of love in return but also the greater pain when things go wrong...(?)

[LiLiaN]

Love can be a very simple like a very simple menu, when you don't add spices into it.
no spices = bland food... neh, would like to enrich my taste buds a bit more than that... :D

[Sarah]

so lesson of the day - the more you love, the greater chance of love in return but also the greater pain when things go wrong...(?)

now now... dun spoil my perception of love... for me, everything is very simple and easy nia.. I dun expect much in return... I only need to have faith.. even if my bf/husband leaves me or hurt me in the future, I know I dont depend on him for happiness... "when you rely on someone for happiness, you are in deep trouble"... that's my view... of course I dont deny its easier said than done... but it has indeed taken me much circumstances to shape who I am today..

[LiLiaN]

we all rely on people around us for happiness in one form or another... you can't just have faith without even the teensiest amount of love... it's unnatural... and love is always linked to other feelings such as happiness and sadness... why do you think emotional blackmail is such an old trick in the book and yet most people resort to that at some point..?

[Sarah]

sorry... i meant the quote for myself... all I'm saying is that man will fail us... im not being pessimistic here...

[Sarah]

we all rely on people around us for happiness in one form or another... you can't just have faith without even the teensiest amount of love... it's unnatural... and love is always linked to other feelings such as happiness and sadness... why do you think emotional blackmail is such an old trick in the book and yet most people resort to that at some point..?

you may try to counter some things I say, but Im sure you do agree what I said is true to a certain point, and to some ppl. well.. if you really understand what I'm trying to say.. :)

[Hisham]

There is no way to know if it's "the right one" for anyone.

Starts out as you feeling happy that you're together. You profess your love and committ. You explore new exciting feelings. Both your lives adapt to each other until it reaches an equilibrium. You both fall into a routine.

Now this is the point in both your lives that you need to say "This is the one for me" with no other reason other than the conviction in yourself that you are your spouse's partner that you love and vise versa.

The thing is your conviction and your partner's conviction in this have to be at a constant positives. (It will be wavy with ups and down since we a filthy humans anyway, but it has to be mostly be positive.)

What I'm trying to say is once you've decided you found your significant other, you'll have to be active in thinking positive about your relationship and do soething about it to keep the flame burning. Not just you alone, of course, but both of you. Talk to each other. Keep the magic alive.

Entropy also works on relationships. If you leave it alone it will decay.

If after you say "I love you" and wait for wonderful things to happen... they might happen. But without a constant thrust the momentum will die sooner or later and it'll be just a matter of time before you or your partner will be the first to say, "This is going nowhere. I quit."

To summarize: if you both think you're perfect for each other, both of you have to talk and surprise each other with good things til the day you die. Don't wait for the other to do something.

[Sarah]

well..some of my points are in there... but a better rephrase! :) haha...
I just don't like the idea when one calls it quit when things dun work out.. u know wat i mean...

[Hisham]

Well yeah. No one likes the idea of calling it quits. I hate it. You hate it. But it does happen in real life.

Why do people reach this point? Honestly I have no idea, but I would think that they feel like they're hanging on to nothing but a faint memory of love and excitement. They feel nothing now and appears like they will feel nothing in the future.

Thus my point of actively keeping the excitement in your relationships and not waiting for things to happen from your first day together to the day one of you die.

In other words, yeah, what you said previously. :D

[Sarah]

aiyah... let's just keep love simple... eh :) and not be totally engrossed in it... the world has much better things to do.. like lilian, doing her PhD now (will def be soo successful next time), and others... got career, kids... :) hehe...

[Voon Chan]

that's right.... olympian gods are not only polygamous, they also indulge in incest (ie relationship with elements of consanguinity)....

They are into everything incest, polygamus & whatever in existence. :eek: They have orgies (& whatever you can name it). The Greek mythodology is crazy!!!! Love & Sexualilty is to complicated in their world

[Voon Chan]

we all rely on people around us for happiness in one form or another... you can't just have faith without even the teensiest amount of love... it's unnatural... and love is always linked to other feelings such as happiness and sadness... why do you think emotional blackmail is such an old trick in the book and yet most people resort to that at some point..?

We allowed people to make us sad, happy,hate & etc. It is our own doing. A girls walk out of my life once. I told her thank you. I found someone more suitable for me. You drive your car out there, someone knock your car. Immediately a person get angry. That person want to get angry not that the other person cause it. After the accident if just have a paradigm shift "Thank God, I am still alive, I can repair my car". No anger there.

Emotional black mail is the same.

[Sarah]

They are into everything incest, polygamus & whatever in existence. :eek: They have orgies (& whatever you can name it). The Greek mythodology is crazy!!!! Love & Sexualilty is to complicated in their world

luckily not talking about me... hehe :) that's in Greek..far far away... goddess goddess.. no longer exist wan...

[athena]

luckily not talking about me... hehe :) that's in Greek..far far away... goddess goddess.. no longer exist wan...
hahha....if u know the greek mythology well enuf..for the uniniatiated, artemis and athena were virgin goddesses.....dun indulge in shameful incestous and adulterous affairs...hahaha...

[Sarah]

hahha....if u know the greek mythology well enuf..for the uniniatiated, artemis and athena were virgin goddesses.....dun indulge in shameful incestous and adulterous affairs...hahaha...

that's a good one athena... haha.. luckily u stand up for our names.. :)

[daLady]

I beg to differ... I believe that's not the right way in viewing relationships... if everyone you meet eventually bores you, so, change gf/bf until you die laa?? When are you gonna settle for THE ONE?? Being in love, does not demand "fun" as a criterion.. true love is never fun... its only lust/flirts/infatuation that's fun... true love takes lots of your time, energy, money, effort, sacrifice... etc..you name it.. Separations/breaking ups/divorces only adds to more problems in the society. Can it ever be something mutual??? RARELY!!! its rarely something mutual about breaking ups, else everyone wouldnt be so affected by it.

I'm an extremely strong believer of monogamy.. and I stand by it.

The thing is if you are in love with someone...you don't get bored with them easily. Sure, things mellowed down a bit from the initial 6 months walk in the clouds euphoria... you stop sitting by the lake, planning your dates...but it's not boredom you feel but comfort - you feel more comfortable with the person...like family. You know he will be there for you if you need him.

Or maybe it's just me...I've known daboss for a long time - in total ard 12 years - paktoh 4 years, married 4.5 years and have 2 kids...but I can tell you I still look forward to see him at the end of every day and the pillow talks we have before we sleep. Sure we irritate the hell out of each other some times and get mad/naggy or are lazy... but I have to say I still love being with him still...very much indeed. :) Btw, he's my first love.

[Voon Chan]

..for the uniniatiated, artemis and athena were virgin goddesses...

"There comes a time when we meet a certain calling................" the initiation will then begin. :o Time will determine.

[Sarah]

The thing is if you are in love with someone...you don't get bored with them easily. Sure, things mellowed down a bit from the initial 6 months walk in the clouds euphoria... you stop sitting by the lake, planning your dates...but it's not boredom you feel but comfort - you feel more comfortable with the person...like family. You know he will be there for you if you need him.

Or maybe it's just me...I've known daboss for a long time - in total ard 12 years - paktoh 4 years, married 4.5 years and have 2 kids...but I can tell you I still look forward to see him at the end of every day and the pillow talks we have before we sleep. Sure we irritate the hell out of each other some times and get mad/naggy or are lazy... but I have to say I still love being with him still...very much indeed. :) Btw, he's my first love.

that's true... im glad u still feel the same now for DaBoss... Im talking about some ppl who thinks that when there's no more excitement or that things are different from the past, then its time to call it quit.

[LiLiaN]

daLady, you are one very lucky lady... :)
(daBoss, great job in keeping the love going!)

i supposed down the road, you want someone to share everything with, not just something exciting, but also of companionship, friendship, family etc etc... someone you can sit in comfortable silence, and be able to finish up each other's sentences...

your relationship sounds very much like one of my aunts... she married her first love, they were in school together, and now, married for 14 years with 3 lovely children... they literally have known each other half their life....

[Alkapocino]

They are into everything incest, polygamus & whatever in existence. :eek: They have orgies (& whatever you can name it). The Greek mythodology is crazy!!!! Love & Sexualilty is to complicated in their world
Can't agree with that. We don't need Greeks to do that (IN BOLD). If not for the Greeks, we would still be staying in the hut?

Their history is so rich. Athena and Artemis would concurred. :D

Well...just my point of view.

[athena]

Can't agree with that. We don't need Greeks to do that (IN BOLD). If not for the Greeks we would still be staying in the hut?

Their history is so rich. Athena and Artemis would concurred. :D

Well...just my point of view.

haha..thank you so much Alka...the Greeks did have a great civilization. I guess they are, in a way, more open when it comes to discussing sexuality. That is probably why they are not afraid to pen down how their Gods behave..haha...although bad....

[LiLiaN]

some interesting facts about artemis and athena.... the greeks i mean...

artemis:
Dislikes men, whom she sometimes orders torn apart if they see her bathing. Opposes the institution of marriage and the subsequent loss of freedom it entails for women. Though Artemis didn't care much for men, young boys were welcome to study at her sanctuary at Brauron. (hmmm..no men but ok for boys...? :p )

athena:
Birthplace: From the forehead of her father Zeus. She is not usually emotional or compassionate (kinda make sense - afterall she did split her father's forehead). Like Artemis, she has no spouse nor children.

[daLady]

:eek: artermis = micheal jackson???

[athena]

haha..since we're discussing the goddesses.....i would like to add..
ARTERMIS :
The daughter of Leto and Zeus, and twin sister of Apollo. Artemis is the goddess of the wilderness, the hunt and wild animals, and fertility (she became a goddess of fertility and childbirth mainly in cities). She was often depicted with the crescent of the moon above her forehead and was sometimes identified with Selene (goddess of the moon). Artemis was one of the Olympians and a virgin goddess. Her main vocation was to roam mountain forests and uncultivated land with her nymphs in attendance hunting for lions, panthers, hinds and stags. Contradictory to the later, she helped in protecting and seeing to their well-being, also their safety and reproduction. She was armed with a bow and arrows which were made by Hephaestus and the Cyclopes.

In one legend, Artemis was born one day before her brother Apollo. Her mother gave birth to her on the island of Ortygia, then, almost immediately after her birth, she helped her mother to cross the straits over to Delos, where she then delivered Apollo. This was the beginning of her role as guardian of young children and patron of women in childbirth. Being a goddess of contradictions, she was the protectress of women in labor, but it was said that the arrows of Artemis brought them sudden death while giving birth. As was her brother, Apollo, Artemis was a divinity of healing, but also brought and spread diseases such as leprosy, rabies and even gout.

Being associated with chastity, Artemis at an early age (in one legend she was three years old) asked her father, the great god Zeus, to grant her eternal virginity. Also, all her companions were virgins. Artemis was very protective of her purity, and gave grave punishment to any man who attempted to dishonor her in any form. Actaeon, while out hunting, accidentally came upon Artemis and her nymphs, who bathing naked in a secluded pool. Seeing them in all their naked beauty, the stunned Actaeon stopped and gazed at them, but when Artemis saw him ogling them, she transformed him into a stag. Then, incensed with disgust, she set his own hounds upon him. They chased and killed what they thought was another stag, but it was their master. As with Orion, a giant and a great hunter, there are several legends which tell of his death, one involving Artemis. It is said that he tried to rape the virgin goddess, so killed him with her bow and arrows. Another says she conjured up a scorpion which killed Orion and his dog. Orion became a constellation in the night sky, and his dog became Sirius, the dog star. Yet another version says it was the scorpion which stung him and was transformed into the constellation with Orion, the later being Scorpio. Artemis was enraged when one of her nymphs, Callisto, allowed Zeus to seduce her, but the great god approached her in one of his guises; he came in the form of Artemis. The young nymph was unwittingly tricked, and she gave birth to Arcas, the ancestor of the Arcadians, but Artemis showed no mercy and changed her into a bear. She then shot and killed her. As Orion, she was sent up to the heavens, and became the constellation of the Great Bear (which is also known as the Plough).

Artemis was very possessive. She would show her wrath on anyone who disobeyed her wishes, especially against her sacred animals. Even the great hero Agamemnon came upon the wrath of Artemis, when he killed a stag in her sacred grove. His punishment came when his ships were becalmed, while he made his way to besiege Troy. With no winds to sail his ships he was told by the seer Calchas that the only way Artemis would bring back the winds was for him to sacrifice his daughter Iphigenia. Some versions say he did sacrifice Iphigenia, others that Artemis exchanged a deer in her place, and took Iphigenia to the land of the Tauri (the Crimea) as a priestess, to prepare strangers for sacrifice to Artemis.

Artemis with her twin brother, Apollo, put to death the children of Niobe. The reason being that Niobe, a mere mortal, had boasted to Leto, the mother of the divine twins, that she had bore more children, which must make her superior to Leto. Apollo being outraged at such an insult on his mother, informed Artemis. The twin gods hunted them down and shot them with their bows and arrows; Apollo killed the male children and Artemis the girls.

Artemis was worshiped in most Greek cities but only as a secondary deity. However, to the Greeks in Asia Minor (modern day Turkey) she was a prominent deity. In Ephesus, a principal city of Asia Minor, a great temple was built in her honor, which became one of the "Seven Wonders of the Ancient World". But at Ephesus she was worshiped mainly as a fertility goddess, and was identified with Cybele the mother goddess of eastern lands. The cult statues of the Ephesian Artemis differ greatly from those of mainland Greece, whereas she is depicted as a huntress with her bow and arrows. Those found at Ephesus show her in the eastern style, standing erect with numerous nodes on her chest. There have been many theories as to what they represent. Some say they are breasts, others that they are bulls testes which were sacrificed to her. Which is the true interpretation remains uncertain, but each represent fertility.

There were festivals in honor of Artemis, such as the Brauronia, which was held in Brauron; and the festival of Artemis Orthia, held at Sparta, when young Spartan boys would try to steal cheeses from the altar. As they tried they would be whipped, the meaning of Orthia and the nature of the ritual whipping has been lost and there is no logical explanation or translation. Among the epithets given to Artemis are: Potnia Theron (mistress of wild animals) this title was mentioned by the great poet Homer; Kourotrophos (nurse of youth's); Locheia (helper in childbirth); Agrotera (huntress); and Cynthia (taken from her birthplace on Mount Cynthus on Delos). When young girls reached puberty they were initiated into her cult, but when they decided to marry, which Artemis was not against, they were asked to lay in front of the altar all the paraphernalia of their virginity, toys, dolls and locks of their hair, they then left the domain of the virgin goddess.

[Alkapocino]

some interesting facts about artemis and athena.... the greeks i mean...

artemis:
Dislikes men, whom she sometimes orders torn apart if they see her bathing. Opposes the institution of marriage and the subsequent loss of freedom it entails for women. Though Artemis didn't care much for men, young boys were welcome to study at her sanctuary at Brauron. (hmmm..no men but ok for boys...? :p )

athena:
Birthplace: From the forehead of her father Zeus. She is not usually emotional or compassionate (kinda make sense - afterall she did split her father's forehead). Like Artemis, she has no spouse nor children.
Put it in the knowledge based thread. Can someone start the thread. :p

Good one LiLian.

[athena]

ATHENA:
Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom, war, the arts, industry, justice and skill. She was the favorite child of Zeus. She had sprung fully grown out of her father's head. Her mother was Metis, goddess of wisdom and Zeus' first wife. In fear that Metis would bear a son mightier than himself. Zeus swallowed her and she began to make a robe and helmet for her daughter. The hammering of the helmet caused Zeus great pain in the form of headaches and he cried out in agony. Skilled Hephaestus ran to his father and split his skull open and from it emerged Athena, fully grown and wearing her mother's robe and helmet. She is the virgin mother of Erichthnonius.

Athena and her uncle Poseidon were both very fond of a certain city in Greece. Both of them claimed the city and it was decided that the one that could give the finest gift should have it. Leading a procession of citizens, the two gods mounted the Acropolis. Poseidon struck the side of the cliff with his trident and a spring welled up. The people marveled, but the water was as salty as Poseidon's sea and it was not very useful. Athena's gift was an olive tree, which was better because it gave the people food, oil and wood. Athena named her city Athens.

Athena's companion was the goddess of victory, Nike, and her usual attribute is the owl. Athena possessed the Aegis.

[LiLiaN]

ATHENA:
Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom, war, the arts, industry, justice and skill. She was the favorite child of Zeus. She had sprung fully grown out of her father's head. Her mother was Metis, goddess of wisdom and Zeus' first wife. In fear that Metis would bear a son mightier than himself. Zeus swallowed her and she began to make a robe and helmet for her daughter. The hammering of the helmet caused Zeus great pain in the form of headaches and he cried out in agony. Skilled Hephaestus ran to his father and split his skull open and from it emerged Athena, fully grown and wearing her mother's robe and helmet. She is the virgin mother of Erichthnonius.
different from the info i have leh.... which goes like the following....

"Athena is the goddess of wisdom, war, and crafts. She is the daughter of Metos (wisdom) and Zeus. Zeus swallowed Metos because he was told any child he had by Metos would eventually dethrone him. It never happened though. Before Metos gave birth Zeus swallowed her. He was soon tortured by a severe headache. Hephaestus split Zeus's head open and out sprang a full grown Athena."

[LiLiaN]

how to be a favourite child behaving like that..? ;)

[athena]

some interesting facts about artemis and athena.... the greeks i mean...

artemis:
Dislikes men, whom she sometimes orders torn apart if they see her bathing. Opposes the institution of marriage and the subsequent loss of freedom it entails for women. Though Artemis didn't care much for men, young boys were welcome to study at her sanctuary at Brauron. (hmmm..no men but ok for boys...? :p )

athena:
Birthplace: From the forehead of her father Zeus. She is not usually emotional or compassionate (kinda make sense - afterall she did split her father's forehead). Like Artemis, she has no spouse nor children.


i would like to add....although athena had no children nor spouse, she did care for a child , Erichthonius, who is said to be the child of Hephaetues and Gaia. Under the protection of Athena, Erichthonious became the King of Athens and he concentrated on the progress of people. So Lilian, i hope you get the full facts first before publishing the half-truths

[LiLiaN]

aiyah... did care does not mean it's hers mah... as you said, she was a virgin... and we only know one virgin mother named mary....

[ausman]

Is athena and artemis female.... I mean the real person here in the forum.

[LiLiaN]

i think they are.... and likely to be self confident young ladies too.... :)

[athena]

aiyah... did care does not mean it's hers mah... as you said, she was a virgin... and we only know one virgin mother named mary....
haha...she was the child's adopted mom...you can still be a mother ya know although you din give birth

[LiLiaN]

maybe it would be more politically correct to say "she has no spouse nor children of her own but she is an adopted mother"..?

[Alkapocino]

Dear Thelma,

In between Athena and Artemis, who do you think I should love?

[LiLiaN]

Dear Thelma,

In between Athena and Artemis, who do you think I should love?
dear alka,

well, as you can see, athena is feisty and passionate, while artemis is seemingly out of action (gone hunting?).

this is actually a tough choice. you see, athena is also known as the maiden-who-is-not-desired, woman-as-stabilizing-force while artemis is known as the maiden-who-is-desired-but-cannot-be-touched....

maybe athena is a better choice for now... (until artemis come along to defend herself?)

yours sincerely,
aunt thelma

[athena]

Dear Alka,

Both Artemis and Athena are taken. Please consult Madam Matchmaker for available goddeses.

Yours Truly,
Athena

[ausman]

hmmm.... athena and artemis taken...... I tot... goddess is always celibate....interesting...

[athena]

:p

[song cm]

Dear Alka,

Both Artemis and Athena are taken. Please consult Madam Matchmaker for available goddeses.

Yours Truly,
Athena

Hey, modern world.....taken aso can lar.... :p willing buyer, willing seller lor...

[LiLiaN]

hmmm.... athena and artemis taken...... I tot... goddess is always celibate....interesting...
they try their best to be celibate... just don't get caught... like some poor vesta virgins... if they are caught, the virgins get stoned and the guys get flogged...

[athena]

hmmm.... athena and artemis taken...... I tot... goddess is always celibate....interesting...
hmmmm interesting....define celibate... :rolleyes:

[Alkapocino]

dear alka,

well, as you can see, athena is feisty and passionate, while artemis is seemingly out of action (gone hunting?).

this is actually a tough choice. you see, athena is also known as the maiden-who-is-not-desired, woman-as-stabilizing-force while artemis is known as the maiden-who-is-desired-but-cannot-be-touched....

maybe athena is a better choice for now... (until artemis come along to defend herself?)

yours sincerely,
aunt thelma
Thanks Aunt Thelma. I will write to you again. :D

[Alkapocino]

Dear Alka,

Both Artemis and Athena are taken. Please consult Madam Matchmaker for available goddeses.

Yours Truly,
Athena
Athena dear...I thought we are well bonded in terms of our tittles....ain't we? :)

[LiLiaN]

Thanks Aunt Thelma. I will write to you again. :D
you're welcome. glad to be of help ;)

[athena]

Athena dear...I thought we are well bonded in terms of our tittles....ain't we? :)
hahaha....true true......

[LiLiaN]

hahaha....true true......
awww.... look, alka and athena "connecting"....
isn't that sweet...? ;)

[athena]

hey alka, you wanna change yer moniker to zeus...

[LiLiaN]

hey alka, you wanna change yer moniker to zeus...
mon dieu... zeus is your father... not godfather....

[athena]

haha...what i mean is God-Father mah...so mah zeus lor

[Alkapocino]

Nah...I have enough of impersonators today. Just look at what Ray has put up in the godfather and terminator thread. :p

[ausman]

celibate.... choose to not to have partner of opposite gender for life...ooo rather eternity....

still puzzled... "taken" so are you two really taken by opposite gender or just taken up by the job.

[athena]

celibate.... choose to not to have partner of opposite gender for life...ooo rather eternity....

still puzzled... "taken" so are you two really taken by opposite gender or just taken up by the job.
haha.. art and I are taken by each other....hahahahaha..... :D :D:D

[athena]

Nah...I have enough of impersonators today. Just look at what Ray has put up in the godfather and terminator thread. :p
haha...i saw.... Good work RAY!!!!NICE!!!

[Alkapocino]

hey alka, you wanna change yer moniker to zeus...
moniker...are you irish? i thot you are Greek? :p

[LiLiaN]

haha.. art and I are taken by each other....hahahahaha..... :D :D:D
well, both daughters of zeus... go figure....
this is one big messed up family tree... :confused:

[ausman]

Hey... guys and gals... I think you are on the wrong thread.... should be Alka luv Athena or vice-versa.

Remember .. this is "Dear Thelma"

[LiLiaN]

it's ok... miss thelma likes mix and match... she told me so... :D

[ausman]

OIC... okaylah...

[Hisham]

Where is Aphrodite when you need her?

[LiLiaN]

Where is Aphrodite when you need her?
aphrodite...? too busy indulging herself with whole lotta lurrvvveeeee somewhere... afterall, she likes glamour and was not at all pleased at being the wife of sooty, hard-working Hephaestus (the smith god) so what make you think she'll pop in here any time soon..? :rolleyes:

[LiLiaN]

crisis...crisis...!

i think i should change from aunt thelma to sister thelma... just when i thought i'm in control of my (lack of) love life, my ex's best friend sent me an email today saying "have i ever told you i love you"...

am i overreacting..??? please tell me i am..!

ps: will be MIA for a day or so... attending christmas party in another town 3 hours away....

[Alkapocino]

ps: will be MIA for a day or so... attending christmas party in another town 3 hours away....
Have fun. Hope you'll encounter your new hero like Achilles.

[LiLiaN]

Have fun. Hope you'll encounter your new hero like Achilles.thank you... :)
(self reminder: must keep his heels away from sight...)

[athena]

dun worry lilian. i'll send my nephew Eros(a.ka. cupid) to your christmas party....then whether he is Achilles or Hercelus...no problemo... :D

[daLady]

crisis...crisis...!

i think i should change from aunt thelma to sister thelma... just when i thought i'm in control of my (lack of) love life, my ex's best friend sent me an email today saying "have i ever told you i love you"...

hmm...need more of the email content to help you analyze this :D

[Alkapocino]

dun worry lilian. i'll send my nephew Eros(a.ka. cupid) to your christmas party....then whether he is Achilles or Hercelus...no problemo... :D
Wow..so thoughtful. For once LiLian don't have to suffer from having Achilles heel. :D

[Sarah]

dear alka,

well, as you can see, athena is feisty and passionate, while artemis is seemingly out of action (gone hunting?).

this is actually a tough choice. you see, athena is also known as the maiden-who-is-not-desired, woman-as-stabilizing-force while artemis is known as the maiden-who-is-desired-but-cannot-be-touched....

maybe athena is a better choice for now... (until artemis come along to defend herself?)

yours sincerely,
aunt thelma

Me, dont need anyone to love... I can be of my own! Athena, I wont stop you from pursuing your love .. go ahead if you want to... I'll be just fine!

[athena]

Me, dont need anyone to love... I can be of my own! Athena, I wont stop you from pursuing your love .. go ahead if you want to... I'll be just fine!
my dear Art, how can I bear to leave you.....we will be together...FOREVER....

[Sarah]

my dear Art, how can I bear to leave you.....we will be together...FOREVER....

ohh...ath, i'm so touched... but pls.. being with me, has no future.. chu pa... (mandarin)

[athena]

ohh...ath, i'm so touched... but pls.. being with me, has no future.. chu pa... (mandarin)


artemis, my dearest artemis....i dun need a future...you are my future.....

[Sarah]

artemis, my dearest artemis....i dun need a future...you are my future.....

ohh.... really??? let's make a blood vow then... :) come to my chamber tonight, at midnite.. when the clock strikes 12, we will belong to each other..forever and ever...
:D

[Alkapocino]

You need any witnesss - me ? :D

[athena]

ok ok my dear art....but must sync our clocks...your 12MN or mine? :p

[Sarah]

ok ok my dear art....but must sync our clocks...your 12MN or mine? :p

heheee..chin chai laa...

[Voon Chan]

ohh.... really??? let's make a blood vow then... :) come to my chamber tonight, at midnite.. when the clock strikes 12, we will belong to each other..forever and ever...
:D

Hope it is only blood vow nothing more. BTW, already sister why need blood vow? :confused:

[athena]

Hope it is only blood vow nothing more. BTW, already sister why need blood vow? :confused:
hahaha...the blood vow is to streghten the bond of sisterhood....girl poohwahh..!!!!!

[Sarah]

hahaha...the blood vow is to streghten the bond of sisterhood....girl poohwahh..!!!!!

yea yea... hehe... this is wat you call girl POoohhWaahhh... unbreakable..

[LiLiaN]

dun worry lilian. i'll send my nephew Eros(a.ka. cupid) to your christmas party....then whether he is Achilles or Hercelus...no problemo... :Dhe never appeared leh.... "put me aeroplane" issit...?

anyway, maybe it's a good thing... there was no one attractive enough (for me anyway)... just some weird drunk ones who try to dance with you, but more kind of jumping around like monkeys... ewww...:(

[LiLiaN]

hmm...need more of the email content to help you analyze this :Dermm.. there was not much in the email lar.. lemme see... he sent me email with cartoons, i sent back reply to thank him and just to ask how he is keeping.... then hor, THE reply....

something along the line "dear lil, have i ever told u i love u... when r u coming to london (he works in london)... i'll be going home to rome for christmas... kisses, r" (he's italian, and all italian and french i know end mails etc with kisses)...

so a very short email, the sentence look very casual... after consideration after a couple of drinks last night at party, i think i'd settle for him just "loving" me as a friend... :)

[song cm]

he never appeared leh.... "put me aeroplane" issit...?

anyway, maybe it's a good thing... there was no one attractive enough (for me anyway)... just some weird drunk ones who try to dance with you, but more kind of jumping around like monkeys... ewww...:(

Hmm....Lilian, sounds like u had a "good" time at the party........ :D

[daLady]

ermm.. there was not much in the email lar.. lemme see... he sent me email with cartoons, i sent back reply to thank him and just to ask how he is keeping.... then hor, THE reply....

something along the line "dear lil, have i ever told u i love u... when r u coming to london (he works in london)... i'll be going home to rome for christmas... kisses, r" (he's italian, and all italian and french i know end mails etc with kisses)...

so a very short email, the sentence look very casual... after consideration after a couple of drinks last night at party, i think i'd settle for him just "loving" me as a friend... :)

good for you. :)

anyway, it's a lot simpler if you don't like that guy...just ignore whatever subtle hints (if they are hints)...the guy will eventually stop pursuing or forced to declare, right? So no need to waste time pondering over it... :D

[athena]

he never appeared leh.... "put me aeroplane" issit...?

anyway, maybe it's a good thing... there was no one attractive enough (for me anyway)... just some weird drunk ones who try to dance with you, but more kind of jumping around like monkeys... ewww...:(
WHAT??!!! :eek: HE did not APPEAR....hmm....nevermind...i complaint to aphrodite...let her teach him a lesson ...so sorry for his non-apperance..

sounds like you had fun though..:D

[LiLiaN]

good for you. :)

anyway, it's a lot simpler if you don't like that guy...just ignore whatever subtle hints (if they are hints)...the guy will eventually stop pursuing or forced to declare, right? So no need to waste time pondering over it... :D
i'm not saying i like him or not, but he's a friend of mine too, so it's just weird...
anyway, my plan is just to pretend ignorance to that little hint (or not, whatever)...
and pretend everything is hunky dory like usual... ;)

[LiLiaN]

WHAT??!!! :eek: HE did not APPEAR....hmm....nevermind...i complaint to aphrodite...let her teach him a lesson ...so sorry for his non-apperance..

sounds like you had fun though..:D
must discipline him properly!!!! :mad:

well, i did have fun, lots of great music to dance to... just kinda have to skip the dancefloor whenever slow songs come up... pah! :D

[athena]

dun woree.lilian....eros is now officially grounded...aphro not gonna let him out until er...say valentine's ...haha...

[Sarah]

i'm not saying i like him or not, but he's a friend of mine too, so it's just weird...
anyway, my plan is just to pretend ignorance to that little hint (or not, whatever)...
and pretend everything is hunky dory like usual... ;)

Lilian, do you really believe that little "hint" in that letter??? Out of nowhere, he comes and tell you he loves you?? You are the Sis Thelma ler... u should be wiser to not be fooled by this apparent sweet little talks..

[LiLiaN]

dun woree.lilian....eros is now officially grounded...aphro not gonna let him out until er...say valentine's ...haha...
good good... but can lighten the "sentence" a little... say a week before valentine's, for him to get ready to work and everything.... :D

[LiLiaN]

Lilian, do you really believe that little "hint" in that letter??? Out of nowhere, he comes and tell you he loves you?? You are the Sis Thelma ler... u should be wiser to not be fooled by this apparent sweet little talks..
hmm... aunt thelma will know what to do... sis thelma won't... (hello, sister = nun!)...

[athena]

hmm... aunt thelma will know what to do... sis thelma won't... (hello, sister = nun!)...
hahah if u put sister !=nun....heheh....wat a diff it wud make...muahhaha...

[Sarah]

hmm... aunt thelma will know what to do... sis thelma won't... (hello, sister = nun!)...

oh.. ok ok ..go back to Aunt liao ar (nun can be much wiser than aunt though! ;) ... so, you sure u know wat to do?? but I guess, Im in no position to "teach" u wat to do.. :)

[siewjang]

Harlo, i'm new here. can you please summarized for me what is all those stories about? 13 pages of Dear Thelma wor. So cham ah?

[Sarah]

haha.... its about "Dear Thelma" thread... those who have love problems should consult Aunt Thelma , but it seems that, Thelma herself is caught up with her love problem...:( and is consulting everyone else instead... so, I guess we all should support her and stand by her..

[siewjang]

what? :eek: after all those 13 pages, no one can help her with her long distance relationship ah? Get a new one. Solve all the problem. Gwai lo not bad also.

[LiLiaN]

what? :eek: after all those 13 pages, no one can help her with her long distance relationship ah? Get a new one. Solve all the problem. Gwai lo not bad also.
well, you see, it started with me having question, but somehow down the road, i became aunt thelma.... hmm... curious isn't it...?

anyway, aunt thelma is now back in control.... decided that my problems are no longer in existant - if there's no solution, there's no problem... see, easy peasy... :D

afterall, as with the long distance relationship, i've decided that is not the way to go... and as with a friend who "hinted" of being in love, i'll take that as a friendly gesture and nothing serious.... :p

[siewjang]

Ahh.... that should be the way it is. Don't sleep on your problem. Talk them with your friends. Get a few opinions and you will soon realise the reality. Thumbs up.

[Sarah]

well, you see, it started with me having question, but somehow down the road, i became aunt thelma.... hmm... curious isn't it...?

anyway, aunt thelma is now back in control.... decided that my problems are no longer in existant - if there's no solution, there's no problem... see, easy peasy... :D

afterall, as with the long distance relationship, i've decided that is not the way to go... and as with a friend who "hinted" of being in love, i'll take that as a friendly gesture and nothing serious.... :p

Finally... good one.. two thumbs up! :D

[daBoss]

[Closing thread] Internet Dating stuff moved to a new thread in General Chat - named Internet Dating...