Dilemma............Cancer

[Voon Chan]

A couple in their Mid-30 was talking about their future
The wife suffer from cancer & refused to seek treatment.

The reason given by the wife were treatment is painful & torturing. Money is the next issue. The wife have a few hundred thousand in hand but she rather give the money to her only son who is 4 years old so that the son will have a better future.

She said that she will die any how. The husband is begging her to seek treatment & fight cancer with her money.

What would you do if you were in their position?

[Dino]

Grey area....also depends on what cancer.....me personally, if no nope....i will rather die than to seek treatment.

[Voon Chan]

You will just sentence yourself to death?Grey area....also depends on what cancer.....me personally, if no nope....i will rather die than to seek treatment.

[CaLz]

first stage... go treatment
final stage... dun go..

[song cm]

Grey area....also depends on what cancer.....me personally, if no nope....i will rather die than to seek treatment.

i agree...depending on which stage she is in.....
but big dilema for hubby....sit back and let wife suffer or treat her....after all, money can be earned one....

VC, this is a very terrible thread larr....

[CaLz]

You will just sentence yourself to death?

if no hope liao what for seek for treatment?

[Dino]

if no hope liao what for seek for treatment?

Yeah....just pump me with morphine and let me die....

[Voon Chan]

Terrible, I must agree but what to do. I have asked my wife as regards to he opinion, she said that she will not seek treatment too.

As to the stage, that couple refused to tell. too personal. The wife said that is she die after treatment then she can't earn back the money.

Listening to the make me stress too
i agree...depending on which stage she is in.....
but big dilema for hubby....sit back and let wife suffer or treat her....after all, money can be earned one....

VC, this is a very terrible thread larr....

[Voon Chan]

A dr gave my friend's mother 6 months to live.
She decided to go ahead with treatment. After the treatment she live another 10 years. if no hope liao what for seek for treatment?

[song cm]

Terrible, I must agree but what to do. I have asked my wife as regards to he opinion, she said that she will not seek treatment too.

As to the stage, that couple refused to tell. too personal. The wife said that is she die after treatment then she can't earn back the money.

Listening to the make me stress too

and u decided to stress the forumers too.... :(

[Voon Chan]

I just want to listen to others view in respect to this

Sorry if I have created stress for the members here

and u decided to stress the forumers too.... :(

[CaLz]

A dr gave my friend's mother 6 months to live.
She decided to go ahead with treatment. After the treatment she live another 10 years.

if your friend's mom is in final stage.... i can say it's miracle

ps: good to hear that she won the battle with cancer! :laugh:

[Voon Chan]

It was a miracle. Even the dr said soif your friend's mom is in final stage.... i can say it's miracle

ps: good to hear that she won the battle with cancer! :laugh:

[siewjang]

It really depends on what stage you are at. My mil was at her 4th stage and decided to go for chemo. She's around 73y/o. All together, she needed 6 chemo. After the 4th chemo, she can't fight anymore. She had grown weaker and weaker. Before the chemo she is like a normal human being. Doctor said, after chemo she will live for another 3 to 5 years. But she only live for less than a year. Imagine how much we had spent on her treatment. Rm8,000 for each chemo not including some small surgery which we spent like RM45,000 in 3 months. Like you said, money is not an issue. But I would prefer to die if that is the case. I even told hubby if one day I was hook on ventilation or anything, just let me die than suffer.

[siewjang]

VC, depends on what type of cancer. Some cancer is easier to treat. Like colon cancer it can spread to your liver and so on. It's not easy to tackle.

[athena]

the battle with cancer is really quite difficult...but it really depends on what type of cancer it is....if it's breast cancer, for me, personally, i would fight it. but if i hv a brain tumour or that sort...prob i'll do what Dino will do....pump with the morphine and go !

[Oddfather]

and u decided to stress the forumers too.... :(
i agree...depending on which stage she is in.....
but big dilema for hubby....sit back and let wife suffer or treat her....after all, money can be earned one....

VC, this is a very terrible thread larr....
Totally agreed.....this is a terrible terrible topic for discussion. :wacko:
To seek or not to seek treatment is a personal choice. You can listened to all professional opinions but everyone has their own rights and opinions as to the approaches to deal with this illness.

[SS2006]

Slightly off track a bit, are we allowed to make a living will in M'sia? (In S'pore, living will not valid.)
If allowed, do you think we should make one? I think it's quite relevant to what your friend is facing. Maybe a person can think more rationally when one is in good health.

[athena]

my suaku-ness showing again? what's a living will?

[Voon Chan]

wOW! PEOPLE CAN DECIDE TO DIE JUST LIKE THAT WITHOUT FIGHTING

[CaLz]

yea what's a living will??
im confused... :wacko:

[song cm]

Slightly off track a bit, are we allowed to make a living will in M'sia? (In S'pore, living will not valid.)
If allowed, do you think we should make one? I think it's quite relevant to what your friend is facing. Maybe a person can think more rationally when one is in good health.

is there a diff between living will n dead will? :confused:
i know u can make a will while you are alive.....does that answer ur Q?

[CaLz]

wOW! PEOPLE CAN DECIDE TO DIE JUST LIKE THAT WITHOUT FIGHTING

yeah...that's true, some of them don't have the will to fight

[CaLz]

is there a diff between living will n dead will? :confused:
i know u can make a will while you are alive.....does that answer ur Q?


if living will is put this way, then what is dead will?
how to make a will when you are dead? :confused:

[siewjang]

wOW! PEOPLE CAN DECIDE TO DIE JUST LIKE THAT WITHOUT FIGHTING
Death is jsut a matter of time. Sooner or later. I do have financial constrain and my childrens are still young. Anything that is not cureable I'll just leave it to God.

[song cm]

if living will is put this way, then what is dead will?
how to make a will when you are dead? :confused:
dats why i am confused lorr....
mebbe what Shirlene meant was giving away your "harta" while u r still alive....dat one aso can but I don think u need a will to do so....

loyar VC....can help here?

[Voon Chan]

I really don't know what Shirlene is referring to.

Song, I think your wife will be able to settle all your worries for you

dats why i am confused lorr....
mebbe what Shirlene meant was giving away your "harta" while u r still alive....dat one aso can but I don think u need a will to do so....

loyar VC....can help here?

[alfred98]

Ok! This senario we encountered many times in the oncology wad. Some will decide not for any treatment and so on. In this country, there is no law to govern this issue. For the gahment is not a issue at all, is your personal chioce to live or die here. But euthenisia is not allowed here. So U cannot ask a doctor to inject drugs to kill U.
Anyway for a advice, what I think prevention is better then cure. Just concentrate on few cancer which can be detected by screening eg- Breast Ca, Cervical CA and Ovarian Ca.
Sori, man I will talk later, ladies first lor.
Breast Ca there is screening called self examination technique, mamogram and breast ultrasound. If is use adequately then alots of live can be save. But sori to said that it is not being used for this purpose but only when the condition in the terminal stage then only they seek treatment. The whole process is not effective just because of shyness. Mind U, the breast malignancy will take some time to show up and usually takes months to years to develope.
The whole purpose of screening test is to detect premalignant stage which the treatmant is usually 100% cured. Expecially for the ladies with family history of breast Ca eg mum or aunties.
So in case all this modalities failed to detect this which is usually won't, then treatment depends on staging. Survival rate is by 5 years calculation the worst is definately stage 4.
I can give eg on Ca cervix which is my field. Stage 1 survival is up to 80%, stage 2 60-70%, stage 3 50% and stage 4 is 25%.
The patient need to know is what is the surviaval rate and qualities of life.
Back to the question, the lady got what CA, in what stage and why need so much money to treat?
There is hospital called Gahment Hospital which give free treatment, why not utilies that facilities. Now is the aim of Pak Lah to give free cancer treatment to all no matter what the cost..

[Voon Chan]

Alfred, thank you for those infomation. I hope this thread will lead to some awareness of cancer & the issues surrounding it

[CaLz]

now that's a post from our loctor! even tho i dont understand some medical terms :p

[TingMS]

my humble opinion, go all the way for the treatment, win or lose the battle, another issue, deep inside, we know we had done the best.

money issue, can be earned back.

as for the kids, when they are old enough, they will also understand. Don't be surprised that at that time, if they ask you the question why not spent the money for treatment? what would your answer be? So that they will have a better future? Do you think they will accept that? Will they feel guilty inside? Believe me, it is no fun growing up in a single parent family..

a very difficult question indeed. Hope that none of us here will need to answer that question at all.

[alfred98]

The most commom malignancy in women R:
1. Ca Breast-especially single ladies and family history
2. Ca Cervix- single R save here
3. Ca ovary- mostly in single ladies also
4. Ca Lung- husband or own self smoking
5. Ca Endometrium- single also

For man:
1. Ca Lung- because of smoking lor
2. Ca prostate- can't help is we have mah
3. Ca nasophargngeal- eat too much hot things
4. Ca Stomach-eat too much fat..

[Voon Chan]

Thank you for your views. I agree with your opinion.
I hope none of us need to face this dilemma

[SS2006]

Sorry, sorry for not elaborating on the living will. I assume it was a very popular topic after the Teri Schiavo case. A living will is a will to live or rather not to live, made while a person is in good health. The person will make a will to decide whether they want any life support when faced with a terminal disease, possibly at a time when already in coma. At least this will save the dilemma of loved ones from having to decide whether to let the patient die or to continue with the treatment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_will

[CaLz]

Oo.... now i get it... but i dont know if that is valid in msia
never heard of it before :laugh:

[Voon Chan]

Living will is very important. If we have a +ve projection. Everything will work out better.

Do you realise that people who take a loty of Medical leave actually do not like the circumstances surrounding their working life, ie do not like their boss, work &etc

[alfred98]

VC! U started this thread! What is the answer to my question?

[siewjang]

my humble opinion, go all the way for the treatment, win or lose the battle, another issue, deep inside, we know we had done the best.

money issue, can be earned back. ....
I will put myself in this scenario. Hubby not earning alot. I have 3 young childrens. Hubby loan RM50,000 from sources for my treatment and now I'm gone. Isn't that a sad thing that hubby still have look for a way to repay debt? But I know if you forward this to as many ppl as possible AOL will track this and pay hubby 3 sen each. :p

[Voon Chan]

My personal view.

Just go ahead & seek treatment. Have a positive outlook & mind. Be happy.
The battle is half won.

As I have mentioned, my wife share a different opinion. If ever this happen to me, I am going to battle with my wife before cancer:)
VC! U started this thread! What is the answer to my question?

[SS2006]

My personal view.

Just go ahead & seek treatment. Have a positive outlook & mind. Be happy.
The battle is half won.

As I have mentioned, my wife share a different opinion. If ever this happen to me, I am going to battle with my wife before cancer:)
That's the reason i brought out the living will topic. Never really seriously thought what I'm going to do if anything like this happen. Never even discuss this with my hubby, maybe we should do this...but for Chinese people this subject considered taboo :sad-2:
Share with you all a little secret... During my 2nd pregnancy, i keep having this thought of the possibility of some complications during labour...then who will take care of my eldests baby? I know it was a foolish thought, but maybe because of the hormone imbalance i couldn't help it. This never happened during my 1st pregnancy, that time only feeling very happy and excited about bringing in a new life. So i dun think i can go through a 3rd pregnancy....too stressful emotionally.

[alfred98]

I think better died fighting then without. That's why there is health insurans loh, buy one if can afford one. The best is screening ok. Eg: In Uk they started this pap smear campaign in the 60's. So every ladies in Uk get registered when they are sexually active or married. They will make sure U go for this pap smear as planned. Now they rarely see advance stage of cancer except from the migrants. But they see more Ca vagina and vulva...

[Voon Chan]

Because they start to have inter course early, this will lead to a higher risk of cancer in those areaI think better died fighting then without. That's why there is health insurans loh, buy one if can afford one. The best is screening ok. Eg: In Uk they started this pap smear campaign in the 60's. So every ladies in Uk get registered when they are sexually active or married. They will make sure U go for this pap smear as planned. Now they rarely see advance stage of cancer except from the migrants. But they see more Ca vagina and vulva...

[alfred98]

That's the reason i brought out the living will topic. Never really seriously thought what I'm going to do if anything like this happen. Never even discuss this with my hubby, maybe we should do this...but for Chinese people this subject considered taboo :sad-2:
Share with you all a little secret... During my 2nd pregnancy, i keep having this thought of the possibility of some complications during labour...then who will take care of my eldests baby? I know it was a foolish thought, but maybe because of the hormone imbalance i couldn't help it. This never happened during my 1st pregnancy, that time only feeling very happy and excited about bringing in a new life. So i dun think i can go through a 3rd pregnancy....too stressful emotionally.
Pregnant ladies do think alots some time. Not her fault but the hormones. But guys 2 children is a bit small for a family. U see if a couple produce 2 children for the statistic the population is reducing, 3 is just enough.....So Shirlene thinking of another one??

[alfred98]

Because they start to have inter course early, this will lead to a higher risk of cancer in those area
One of the factors but more from the sexually transmitted disease and multiple sexual partners..

[SS2006]

Pregnant ladies do think alots some time. Not her fault but the hormones. But guys 2 children is a bit small for a family. U see if a couple produce 2 children for the statistic the population is reducing, 3 is just enough.....So Shirlene thinking of another one??
Dun think so. I'm enjoying the fruit of my labour too much now, dun want to get tied down with another resposibility. But having a little girl would be very nice though. Doc, how old is the recommended age to stop having baby? 38 years old still can have 100% complication free baby?

[alfred98]

Dun think so. I'm enjoying the fruit of my labour too much now, dun want to get tied down with another resposibility. But having a little girl would be very nice though. Doc, how old is the recommended age to stop having baby? 38 years old still can have 100% complication free baby?
What 38 years old already? Your sister is it! There is no such a thing called complication free pregnancy lah. Just be lucky that's all. But most pregnancy end up uncomplicated lor. Only small precentage with problem one. There is no age limits actually but age do complicates things. Eg: Abnormal babies lor increased incidence with age..So the longer U wait the higher risk it becomes after 35 years old..For the sex selection the statistic said 50-50 lor. But there is one company called SELENAS give better chance for the couples...

[SS2006]

What 38 years old already? Your sister is it! There is no such a thing called complication free pregnancy lah. Just be lucky that's all. But most pregnancy end up uncomplicated lor. Only small precentage with problem one. There is no age limits actually but age do complicates things. Eg: Abnormal babies lor increased incidence with age..So the longer U wait the higher risk it becomes after 35 years old..For the sex selection the statistic said 50-50 lor. But there is one company called SELENAS give better chance for the couples...
Another 5 years i'll be 38 lorr...planning for future maa...see how much time i have left. No ready for a 3rd yet.

[alfred98]

Another 5 years i'll be 38 lorr...planning for future maa...see how much time i have left. No ready for a 3rd yet.
Ok! but don't wait too long lah.... :)

[Voon Chan]

Any more views regarding this issue?

[euj]

if i were the husband, i would definitely try all the treatments available and use up the money, even if the odds were low.
if i were the wife, i'd probably do the same thing too.
i guess it's about the sanctity of life over the accumulation of wealth. money can be remade. once someone's dead, they're gone for good.

[alfred98]

I give a senario lah. Ok this lady was pregnant lets say about 20 weeks that will be 5 months pregnancy. She was diagnosed to have Breast Carcinoma and staged 1. The advice for her is terminate this pregnancy and go for mastectomy and chemotherapy anf radiotherapy. But if she continue this pregnancy she will died due to cancer. Which one U think U will choose.

[euj]

I give a senario lah. Ok this lady was pregnant lets say about 20 weeks that will be 5 months pregnancy. She was diagnosed to have Breast Carcinoma and staged 1. The advice for her is terminate this pregnancy and go for mastectomy and chemotherapy anf radiotherapy. But if she continue this pregnancy she will died due to cancer. Which one U think U will choose.
if i were the husband, i would definitely choose to try to save the wife's life.

[Voon Chan]

Terminate the pregnancy!

I give a senario lah. Ok this lady was pregnant lets say about 20 weeks that will be 5 months pregnancy. She was diagnosed to have Breast Carcinoma and staged 1. The advice for her is terminate this pregnancy and go for mastectomy and chemotherapy anf radiotherapy. But if she continue this pregnancy she will died due to cancer. Which one U think U will choose.

[alfred98]

if i were the husband, i would definitely choose to try to save the wife's life.
Yah but her first and probably last baby liao whor...

[siewjang]

Yeah. I'll choose to terminate the pregnancy too. No point bring up the baby when there is no mummy. Hubby can always look for other source if he really wants a baby.

[athena]

but if u are the lady, this is ur only shot to get a baby, i dunno what i will do...

[alfred98]

Terminate the pregnancy!
Yah! That's the advice given loh. After this can go for surgery and chemotherapy mah. All this treatment will kill the baby inside if pregnant..

[Voon Chan]

Does it matter. She is your wife. You love her. That baby, it may not be alive too or healthy. Yah but her first and probably last baby liao whor...

[alfred98]

THis is actually not senario ok but real life happening.

[SS2006]

I choose to terminate the pregnancy.

[LiLiaN]

this is such a horrible topic to come across on monday morning...
frankly, if the condition is at late stage, i wouldn't go for treatment...
instead, i'll concentrate on doing things that i should do to live live fully...
why go for lengthy and expensive but fruitless effort...
that effectively prolong the time for pain for oneself, and the love ones...

if at early stage, then will give the treatment a go of course...
life is precious, and with good prognosis, no reason to just give up without trying...

[TingMS]

I will put myself in this scenario. Hubby not earning alot. I have 3 young childrens. Hubby loan RM50,000 from sources for my treatment and now I'm gone. Isn't that a sad thing that hubby still have look for a way to repay debt? But I know if you forward this to as many ppl as possible AOL will track this and pay hubby 3 sen each. :p


RM50,000.00 is sure a lot of money. i don't know your hubby, jang, for me, as a husband, i will go for it. you are looking at the pessimist side. what about the optimist side of view, loan RM$50,000.00 and the wife survived? Worth the effort? :laugh:

[alfred98]

Ok! This lady just had delivery about 2 weeks ago with this senario. She was advice for termination but she delayed it till 28 weeks and the doctor can't do anything except to wait for delivery. Some more she defaulted follow up and end up with pregnancy till 40 weeks. But she actually can be delivered at around 34 weeks with back up facilities for baby eg ventilator. So during pregnancy usually the malignancy progressed faster then normal because of hormones during pregnancy. I think she just had operation and I don't know about the staging now.

[athena]

so the baby is safe...but how about the mommy?

[alfred98]

so the baby is safe...but how about the mommy?
On treatment now lor. Will be difficult one as the stage increased since diagnosis. That why we O&G doctor do breast examination during antenatal check up lor and patient don't understand why we do that think we all hamsap..

[athena]

On treatment now lor. Will be difficult one as the stage increased since diagnosis. That why we O&G doctor do breast examination during antenatal check up lor and patient don't understand why we do that think we all hamsap..
u mean, after giving birth, your chances of getting cancer higher?

[alfred98]

u mean, after giving birth, your chances of getting cancer higher?
No lah, initially the lady had stage one and becuase of delayed treatment the staging increased very fast expecially during pregnancy.
But in general a lady who delivered baby and give breast feeding more are at lower risk of breast cancer lor.

[CaLz]

wow i learned a lot of things today! :p

[shiruikage]

hmmm, intersting topic.

about the 1st cancer issue/question.....brain tumor, forget about treatment, live life. if other cancer like colon or blood or wateva the name is, final stage, forget treatment. live life. otherwise bankrap oso must treat.

for the pregnancy thingy, if women really wants to bear a child, she rather die than kill her one and only child. some people rather creat new life than keep the old one, but many prefer to keep the old on than the new one. i say...don terminate. chances are the baby will survive AND the women WILL survive treatment.

if feeling abit generous since not much life to live, then wat the heck, go for experimental treamtents. at least doctors can get the 2500 human trials before being lawfully administered. old ways cant work, y not try new one, no?

[dragoncity99]

ROFL, doc they think u hamsap lou ah? :laugh: :laugh:

In a way, very cham kena blamed for wolfing around.

Doc, so if got baby alergic mummy's milk, will hubby's help to drink the milk minimize cancer the risk? Actually, is it the milk that became cancer?

If the lady's an airport, still got potential to get breast cancer mah?

[shiruikage]

ROFL, doc they think u hamsap lou ah? :laugh: :laugh:

In a way, very cham kena blamed for wolfing around.

Doc, so if got baby alergic mummy's milk, will hubby's help to drink the milk minimize cancer the risk? Actually, is it the milk that became cancer?

If the lady's an airport, still got potential to get breast cancer mah?
boy...i donno if the ladies will kill u or kiss u. call them airport, they kill u, ut saying airport cant have breat cancer, they kiss u.....dilemma dilemma...... :blink:

[Voon Chan]

No matter how sad, this is the reality of life that people need to face. So live life to the fullest & be happy

[susucaplembu]

No matter how sad, this is the reality of life that people need to face. So live life to the fullest & be happy

great quote VC :)

[alfred98]

ROFL, doc they think u hamsap lou ah? :laugh: :laugh:

In a way, very cham kena blamed for wolfing around.

Doc, so if got baby alergic mummy's milk, will hubby's help to drink the milk minimize cancer the risk? Actually, is it the milk that became cancer?

If the lady's an airport, still got potential to get breast cancer mah?
Ok! If the baby got human milk allergy is usually allergy to lactulose. So can give milk powder which is lactulose free one or soya milk.
The hubby drinking the milk!!! I don't know leh need some sort of study lor, better suggest to TK Ho. Is not the milk causing the cancer leh. Ok the causative agent for cancer is still not fully understand yet, but we are seeing the correlation btw this factor and risk of cancer that's all. So for breast feeding the main thing is the mamary glands secrete milk and make new cells. This process help to change new cells and prevents cells from mutating. ( Maybe I'm wrong here)
Regarding the Airport thing, Dragon wanna died or what. Don't say this after U get one then U know.
The breast size actually got some differents in getting cancer from my observation. This is becuase of body fat content, not the size of the breast. The more fat the higher the chances.

[CaLz]

Ok! If the baby got human milk allergy is usually allergy to lactulose. So can give milk powder which is lactulose free one or soya milk.
The hubby drinking the milk!!! I don't know leh need some sort of study lor, better suggest to TK Ho. Is not the milk causing the cancer leh. Ok the causative agent for cancer is still not fully understand yet, but we are seeing the correlation btw this factor and risk of cancer that's all. So for breast feeding the main thing is the mamary glands secrete milk and make new cells. This process help to change new cells and prevents cells from mutating. ( Maybe I'm wrong here)
Regarding the Airport thing, Dragon wanna died or what. Don't say this after U get one then U know.
The breast size actually got some differents in getting cancer from my observation. This is becuase of body fat content, not the size of the breast. The more fat the higher the chances.

so you mean bigger breast = higher chance of getting cancer?

[alfred98]

so you mean bigger breast = higher chance of getting cancer?
Should be lah. Just see around eg: Ang Moh ladies get more cancer mah!!! :unsure:

[CaLz]

lol...

by the way about pregnancy thingy, what option girls will choose if you know ur baby will be cacat if born(eg bodyparts malfunctioning or terencat akal).
i dont know by scanning you can know or not la(just ASSuME can ok)

Option 1. Abortion
Option 2. Deliver the bb

Any opinions?

[Voon Chan]

Bigger breat got more fat in itso you mean bigger breast = higher chance of getting cancer?

[h2o]

On treatment now lor. Will be difficult one as the stage increased since diagnosis. That why we O&G doctor do breast examination during antenatal check up lor and patient don't understand why we do that think we all hamsap..
are u denying it alf?

[h2o]

A couple in their Mid-30 was talking about their future
The wife suffer from cancer & refused to seek treatment.

The reason given by the wife were treatment is painful & torturing. Money is the next issue. The wife have a few hundred thousand in hand but she rather give the money to her only son who is 4 years old so that the son will have a better future.

She said that she will die any how. The husband is begging her to seek treatment & fight cancer with her money.

What would you do if you were in their position?
(i presume ur pm is referring to this first question right vc?)
firstly i agree with euj post#50
average human life-span today is 80+ (and i intend to work till at least mid60s if i can)
nowadays there have been leaps and bounds in the r & d of cancer treatments
so 30 is a v young age to give up life yet
put yourself in the shoes of the 4yr old son and project 20 yrs into the future - do you think you would still choose to have the $ or have a mother even if it were for, say 5 more years?
just yesterday i was speaking to a friend who's father was given up to mid-40s to live by doctors, he is now sick but 70!!!!!! she said he had a very strong and stubborn will to live (and fought to overcome his illness)

[Voon Chan]

thank you for your views. What ever you say make sense. Nost kids would love to have their mother with them.

Talking to people with cancer can be very difficult because they are so negative. There is a mental block

(i presume ur pm is referring to this first question right vc?)
firstly i agree with euj post#50
average human life-span today is 80+ (and i intend to work till at least mid60s if i can)
nowadays there have been leaps and bounds in the r & d of cancer treatments
so 30 is a v young age to give up life yet
put yourself in the shoes of the 4yr old son and project 20 yrs into the future - do you think you would still choose to have the $ or have a mother even if it were for, say 5 more years?
just yesterday i was speaking to a friend who's father was given up to mid-40s to live by doctors, he is now sick but 70!!!!!! she said he had a very strong and stubborn will to live (and fought to overcome his illness)

[h2o]

thank you for your views. What ever you say make sense. Nost kids would love to have their mother with them.

Talking to people with cancer can be very difficult because they are so negative. There is a mental block
the question u posed would have a straightforward answer in a western country where there is no doubt abt trying for a cure
i think in developing countries (if we can still refer to most of asia as that) life is cheap. but as alfred says now the govt hospitals offer most treatments and it won't cost an arm and a leg...

[siewjang]

Cancer don't kill you. Chemo is the one. I've seen this many many times. And all their immediate family agreed to it. Final stage is a very crucial thing. If your body can't fight it, you will die even faster. You have to see with you own eyes how they suffer.

[siewjang]

the question u posed would have a straightforward answer in a western country where there is no doubt abt trying for a cure
i think in developing countries (if we can still refer to most of asia as that) life is cheap. but as alfred says now the govt hospitals offer most treatments and it won't cost an arm and a leg...
Who say gohment gave free treatment? Maybe now. Not one year ago. Private is charging Rm8,000. They are charging RM5,000. Still, it's a lot of money. Plus all the queue. Few months ago, my sister found some lump on her breast, she went to the gohment hospital and they fixed a date for her to come for scan. But that date she had an exam (final year student). They refused to change the date for her and scheduled it to one month later. Wah, like this can die lo.

[alfred98]

lol...

by the way about pregnancy thingy, what option girls will choose if you know ur baby will be cacat if born(eg bodyparts malfunctioning or terencat akal).
i dont know by scanning you can know or not la(just ASSuME can ok)

Option 1. Abortion
Option 2. Deliver the bb

Any opinions?
In Malaysia abortion is a no no except in condition at which the pregnancy is causing harm or death to the mother, or the fetus having a lethal congenital abnormalities and the pregnancy is causing mental or psychiatrics problem to the mother. This also need 2 consultant specialist to certify first.
But with the advance of technology now, the scan machine is so good we can even see the hand crease. So we definately can diagnose abnormal baby as soon as 11 weeks now. But all this diagnosing is no use for the current law situation in Malaysia.
As my previous fetal maternal specialist said, he is like terminator, scanning for abnormal babies and terminate then. He felt very depressed with the situation..

[alfred98]

are u denying it alf?
Denying is a blessing!! My Si foo always tell us to examine the breast during antenatal peroid as a lady only see doctor when they are pregnant or else they wanted to avoid that. And some more if detected during pregnancy is a bad new and need quick treatment compared with non pregnancy.
But we all actually adjusting to the society, we request for breast examination but if the ladies refused we will note it down so that if it really occurs then we are save...

[alfred98]

Cancer don't kill you. Chemo is the one. I've seen this many many times. And all their immediate family agreed to it. Final stage is a very crucial thing. If your body can't fight it, you will die even faster. You have to see with you own eyes how they suffer.
SJ! Chemo don't kill U lah. Cancer does that. If chemo kills then it won't be here leh.. If the cancer in the final stage that means the cancer had spread to the liver, brain and bone. Still there is some hope left but is very slim liao. Chemotherapy is proven to extend life for the person to do what he or she need to do before the final bye bye...
I had seen and treated some ladies with stage 4 with chemotherapy and still living till today after 4 years now. So the advice is not to give up....

[alfred98]

Who say gohment gave free treatment? Maybe now. Not one year ago. Private is charging Rm8,000. They are charging RM5,000. Still, it's a lot of money. Plus all the queue. Few months ago, my sister found some lump on her breast, she went to the gohment hospital and they fixed a date for her to come for scan. But that date she had an exam (final year student). They refused to change the date for her and scheduled it to one month later. Wah, like this can die lo.
That's is the main problem facing gahment intistutions. That is too many patient liao, just cannot handle. So the appiontment go by the months and years. They still can change the date lah SJ! But the waiting list is too much if U missed this the next one may be next year liao.
To make matter fast, you can go to private first to get the diagnosis and then the treatment can go back to the gahment hospital...

[h2o]

Who say gohment gave free treatment? Maybe now. Not one year ago. Private is charging Rm8,000. They are charging RM5,000. Still, it's a lot of money. Plus all the queue. Few months ago, my sister found some lump on her breast, she went to the gohment hospital and they fixed a date for her to come for scan. But that date she had an exam (final year student). They refused to change the date for her and scheduled it to one month later. Wah, like this can die lo.
that's sad to hear

[siewjang]

SJ! Chemo don't kill U lah. Cancer does that. If chemo kills then it won't be here leh.. If the cancer in the final stage that means the cancer had spread to the liver, brain and bone. Still there is some hope left but is very slim liao. Chemotherapy is proven to extend life for the person to do what he or she need to do before the final bye bye...
I had seen and treated some ladies with stage 4 with chemotherapy and still living till today after 4 years now. So the advice is not to give up....
It depends on what type of cancer and at what stage. If your body can't take them, you will die even faster. After the 4th chemo you can see the difference liao. (either good or bad). How come 10 out of 10 of my friend/relative all die during chemo treatment? Because, the body can't take them!

[CaLz]

a serious debate on chemo treatment going on between alf and sj

but still i think chemo MIGHT do a lil harm on ur tissue perhaps but not until can kill ppl...

just like what our famous loctor said...if chemo can kill it wont be there on the first place

[alfred98]

It depends on what type of cancer and at what stage. If your body can't take them, you will die even faster. After the 4th chemo you can see the difference liao. (either good or bad). How come 10 out of 10 of my friend/relative all die during chemo treatment? Because, the body can't take them!
They passed away during chemo doesn't mean chemo killed then lor. But the chemo do make then go faster abits.Must be Cancer of breast one lor very notorious disease and main female killer now. Others like Ca Cervix also bad like this but Ca of Ovary is ok abit..
If god want to give someone cancer for ladies better choose this cancer called Choriocarcinoma as it got treatment one. In fact this is the only cancer now with treatment.

[siewjang]

No more saliver to argue if you don't read them properly. My mil, mil's sister, mil's cousin, sister's mil, sister's fil, friend's father, friend's mother sister all never got thru cancer. Some left one or two more chemo then die liao. :( I'm not saying that chemo will kill someone. sai hei liao. no more saliver liao. if you have any immediate family members who you watched over and diagnosed with cancer then you will know the progress. Like I say, either it go from bad to worst or vice versa.

[TingMS]

No more saliver to argue if you don't read them properly. My mil, mil's sister, mil's cousin, sister's mil, sister's fil, friend's father, friend's mother sister all never got thru cancer. Some left one or two more chemo then die liao. :( I'm not saying that chemo will kill someone. sai hei liao. no more saliver liao. if you have any immediate family members who you watched over and diagnosed with cancer then you will know the progress. Like I say, either it go from bad to worst or vice versa.


Jang, agree with you, it is a very, very, very painful process, both physically and mentally, for the both patient and the immediate family members.... :crying:

[SS2006]

No more saliver to argue if you don't read them properly. My mil, mil's sister, mil's cousin, sister's mil, sister's fil, friend's father, friend's mother sister all never got thru cancer. Some left one or two more chemo then die liao. :( I'm not saying that chemo will kill someone. sai hei liao. no more saliver liao. if you have any immediate family members who you watched over and diagnosed with cancer then you will know the progress. Like I say, either it go from bad to worst or vice versa.
Yikes...there's a breast cancer gene in your in-laws family! Luckily, your hub is a man (what am i saying? :wacko: )
But man also can get breast cancer, rite doc? :worried:

[alfred98]

No more saliver to argue if you don't read them properly. My mil, mil's sister, mil's cousin, sister's mil, sister's fil, friend's father, friend's mother sister all never got thru cancer. Some left one or two more chemo then die liao. :( I'm not saying that chemo will kill someone. sai hei liao. no more saliver liao. if you have any immediate family members who you watched over and diagnosed with cancer then you will know the progress. Like I say, either it go from bad to worst or vice versa.
Like this SJ must becareful leh, this things run in family one. It is so serious that a marker not done here can predict the future and ladies in UK actually had mastectomy done at 20's just to avoid get cancer in the future...

[alfred98]

OPhs sori in law then wrong leh... heheheeh :o

[alfred98]

Yikes...there's a breast cancer gene in your in-laws family! Luckily, your hub is a man (what am i saying? :wacko: )
But man also can get breast cancer, rite doc? :worried:
Can also but very rare lor heeheheh

[siewjang]

Eh, when did I mentioned breast cancer ah? Other cancer la.

[alfred98]

Eh, when did I mentioned breast cancer ah? Other cancer la.
I will say everyone will die of cancer at some point of there life except accidents lor. Do U believed me???

[siewjang]

Dunno. Need to do my own research first.

[cucuan]

Grey area....also depends on what cancer.....me personally, if no nope....i will rather die than to seek treatment.

Some people holds Dino's view. I mean, as far as we know if the cancer at a very advanced stage, any money spent is just prolonging the life a little longer only. Considering the expenses involved, there is no fighting chance of survival at all. Thus the feeling of despair and surrender is there and instead of spending all their savings on treatmeat they prefer to give the money to their loved ones, like in the case as mentioned by VC to the son.

cucuan

[song cm]

I will say everyone will die of cancer at some point of there life except accidents lor. Do U believed me???

and mebbe heart attacks.....

[SS2006]

I will say everyone will die of cancer at some point of there life except accidents lor. Do U believed me???
I believe you...human body are like machine, subjected to wear and tear , the extend depend on how good you care of them. Only that human body made of organic cells, and cancer is caused by cells getting oxidised and start mutating and becoming cancerous cells.

[alfred98]

and mebbe heart attacks.....
Oh! This one ah! Ok before I say something I actually do think first of all the possibilities here. For me I still consider MI or heart attack is still caused by so called cancer also. See the MI is cause by infart to the tissue which cause by embolus which is consists of fat and protein which is abnormal to the blood vesels. So I say this is a form of cancer lor...

[alfred98]

I believe you...human body are like machine, subjected to wear and tear , the extend depend on how good you care of them. Only that human body made of organic cells, and cancer is caused by cells getting oxidised and start mutating and becoming cancerous cells.
Yah lor some thing like this shirlene.. There are 2 type of cells which can produces cancer, one which reproduced or change very fast eg: stomach cell. There other one is there cell is dormant for too long and when it started to reproduced it do it wrongly..

[SS2006]

And cancerous cells can be induced by external factor ie being exposed to carcinogenic matters. To all you satay and BBQ lovers out there, the burnt stuff are carcinogenic.

[song cm]

Oh! This one ah! Ok before I say something I actually do think first of all the possibilities here. For me I still consider MI or heart attack is still caused by so called cancer also. See the MI is cause by infart to the tissue which cause by embolus which is consists of fat and protein which is abnormal to the blood vesels. So I say this is a form of cancer lor...

haha...knew u gonna say this.... :noworry:

[h2o]

And cancerous cells can be induced by external factor ie being exposed to carcinogenic matters. To all you satay and BBQ lovers out there, the burnt stuff are carcinogenic.
that's why i didn't buy a bbq even tho that is the weekend ritual here in sydney
i resist the temptation bcos carbon=carcinogen

[SS2006]

that's why i didn't buy a bbq even tho that is the weekend ritual here in sydney
i resist the temptation bcos carbon=carcinogen
And Australia has the highest rate of skin cancer...Australian likes to sun-bathe, M'sian like to avoid sun.

[Lava Gal]

In Malaysia abortion is a no no except in condition at which the pregnancy is causing harm or death to the mother, or the fetus having a lethal congenital abnormalities and the pregnancy is causing mental or psychiatrics problem to the mother. This also need 2 consultant specialist to certify first.
But with the advance of technology now, the scan machine is so good we can even see the hand crease. So we definately can diagnose abnormal baby as soon as 11 weeks now. But all this diagnosing is no use for the current law situation in Malaysia.
As my previous fetal maternal specialist said, he is like terminator, scanning for abnormal babies and terminate then. He felt very depressed with the situation..
well yup...my lecturer told us that's the loophole (if got mental trauma to mom can terminate pregnancy)

dr alf, i heard ur clinic got 4-D Ultrasound scanner!! really got 4-D ah...i only know got up to 3-D. pls verify..tq :)

[h2o]

And Australia has the highest rate of skin cancer...Australian likes to sun-bathe, M'sian like to avoid sun.
yup i actually saw this lady (another mom from orchestra) who had more than a dozen melanoma's removed from her face, scalp and forearm. she is naturally fair and prone to it. the scars looked SCARY!!!

[CaLz]

well yup...my lecturer told us that's the loophole (if got mental trauma to mom can terminate pregnancy)

dr alf, i heard ur clinic got 4-D Ultrasound scanner!! really got 4-D ah...i only know got up to 3-D. pls verify..tq :)


wah liu 4D ah... can buy magnum at ur clinic ah? multiservice! (joking only :eek: )

3D = depth, width and height
4D = depth, width, height and time??

correct me if im wrong

[alfred98]

And cancerous cells can be induced by external factor ie being exposed to carcinogenic matters. To all you satay and BBQ lovers out there, the burnt stuff are carcinogenic.
If like this almost everyday boil and steam lor. Can live like this meh? Me sure cannot leh, only like to eat fried food and BBQ also, die, die lah only once mah... :cool:

[alfred98]

And Australia has the highest rate of skin cancer...Australian likes to sun-bathe, M'sian like to avoid sun.
That is why evolution make it such away that only the darker skin living near the equator and the fairer one in the cold countries. The fairer skin having lack of malenin cell which block the sun light. That why the white in Australia sufers.

[alfred98]

well yup...my lecturer told us that's the loophole (if got mental trauma to mom can terminate pregnancy)

dr alf, i heard ur clinic got 4-D Ultrasound scanner!! really got 4-D ah...i only know got up to 3-D. pls verify..tq :)
Yah that the loop hole lor but very expensive hole leh. If everyone wanted for TOP sees Psy specialist then bill will increased lor. Who's your lecturer may I know...Maybe my ex boss or friend leh.
Currently there is so called 4D scanning but in actual facts that is moving 3D...
Calz is correct lor, engineer is it? :D

[monay]

A couple in their Mid-30 was talking about their future
The wife suffer from cancer & refused to seek treatment.

The reason given by the wife were treatment is painful & torturing. Money is the next issue. The wife have a few hundred thousand in hand but she rather give the money to her only son who is 4 years old so that the son will have a better future.

She said that she will die any how. The husband is begging her to seek treatment & fight cancer with her money.

What would you do if you were in their position?

lots of jolly good advice in this thread, my two cents:
it really depends what kind of cancer and what stage. I wonder whether she knows all the facts about her disease yet, any doubt in the diagnosis, any biopsy done, if it's an unsual kind, whether second opinion sought, any imaging studies to see whether it has spread...
if it is early stage and not spread, why not treat it early? chances for cure is higher, treatment could be surgery, chemo or radiation or all, depending on what type of cancer....
if it is late stage, mebbe simple surgery or leave things as is....
if i could be of any help at all....

[alfred98]

lots of jolly good advice in this thread, my two cents:
it really depends what kind of cancer and what stage. I wonder whether she knows all the facts about her disease yet, any doubt in the diagnosis, any biopsy done, if it's an unsual kind, whether second opinion sought, any imaging studies to see whether it has spread...
if it is early stage and not spread, why not treat it early? chances for cure is higher, treatment could be surgery, chemo or radiation or all, depending on what type of cancer....
if it is late stage, mebbe simple surgery or leave things as is....
if i could be of any help at all....
Monay I think U have encountered cases of borderline malignancy, how U tackle it and report it...

[CaLz]

Yah that the loop hole lor but very expensive hole leh. If everyone wanted for TOP sees Psy specialist then bill will increased lor. Who's your lecturer may I know...Maybe my ex boss or friend leh.
Currently there is so called 4D scanning but in actual facts that is moving 3D...
Calz is correct lor, engineer is it? :D

nop programmer.
abt the 4D, einstein told me that :laugh:

ps: 4D is the theory for einstein to travel back thru time, and he proved himself wrong. time travel is not possible according to him

[Voon Chan]

Monay, I would appreciate that you could furnish so information as to
1) What people should do if they are told to have cancer
2) What is chemo?
3) What is radiation?
4) Could a blood test detect cancer cells in our body?

My intention of this thread is to create cancer awareness to our members.

[monay]

Monay I think U have encountered cases of borderline malignancy, how U tackle it and report it...
borderline cancers sometimes hav it in their names, like the borderline serous or mucinous tumors of the ovary.. just report it as such...
some we are not sure, like fine needle aspiration and doc got 20 cells... highly atypical cells suspicious for malignancy
some not sure, show case around, need work up, we send to expert pathologists especially lymphomas, melanomas, soft tissue tumors and poorly differentiated tumors. where do u send your pathology to?

[alfred98]

borderline cancers sometimes hav it in their names, like the borderline serous or mucinous tumors of the ovary.. just report it as such...
some we are not sure, like fine needle aspiration and doc got 20 cells... highly atypical cells suspicious for malignancy
some not sure, show case around, need work up, we send to expert pathologists especially lymphomas, melanomas, soft tissue tumors and poorly differentiated tumors. where do u send your pathology to?
Gross specimen to Gribble's lor more professional, but blood test mostly to Path Lab..and BP lab...But don't worry whor can be discussed leh...

[monay]

Monay, I would appreciate that you could furnish so information as to
1) What people should do if they are told to have cancer
2) What is chemo?
3) What is radiation?
4) Could a blood test detect cancer cells in our body?

My intention of this thread is to create cancer awareness to our members.
once they hav a diagnosis the web has a wealth of information regarding, what is it, what is the usual treatment... etc...google it. what are the side effects of treatment
Chemo means some cancer treating drugs, usually quite potent medicine, usually a combination of drugs which hav gone through clinical trials and shown to be more effective than placebo.... unless the researchers falsified outcome.... one of my friend with advanced breast can went through bone marrow replacement chemo only to be proven later that that study was flawed no women are not givne that kind of treament anymore.
Radiation means treatment of the cancer by radiation, good for squamous cancers not so good for adenocarcinomas
one blood test? there are some markers of cancers that if raised (PSA, CEA, CA 19.9, etc..) raise a suspicion for cancers but i don't think it'll be costeffective to go screen everybody with all those tests...like dr alfred said yearly checkup, pap smear for the ladies, self or doctor breast exam for ladies, colonoscopy after 40 (? not sure what age this begins), healthy lifestyle (no smoking) should be for everybody...
btw, although very rare men do get breast cancers too...

[monay]

Gross specimen to Gribble's lor more professional, but blood test mostly to Path Lab..and BP lab...But don't worry whor can be discussed leh...
gribbles? ok noted, potential employer? i think i still owe gahment time... :(

[alfred98]

gribbles? ok noted, potential employer? i think i still owe gahment time... :(
How many years U being working in Malaysia? I think there is loop hole for this, U need one tell me, maybe can help U.... :)

[h2o]

nop programmer.
abt the 4D, einstein told me that :laugh:

ps: 4D is the theory for einstein to travel back thru time, and he proved himself wrong. time travel is not possible according to him
wow i'm quite impressed! you're full of surprises calv

[Voon Chan]

Let me share with you a true story.
Yesterday my wife's friend was crying
My wife approached her & asked her why
She replied "I visited my 12 years old son in the hospital. He is suffering from final stage of cancer. my son said to me, mom very soon you won't be coming to see me. I will die soon, maybe next month".

I am speechless after heard that. 12 years old boy, knowing that he will die soon

[SS2006]

Let me share with you a true story.
Yesterday my wife's friend was crying
My wife approached her & asked her why
She replied "I visited my 12 years old son in the hospital. He is suffering from final stage of cancer. my son said to me, mom very soon you won't be coming to see me. I will die soon, maybe next month".

I am speechless after heard that. 12 years old boy, knowing that he will die soon
So sad....

[alfred98]

Let me share with you a true story.
Yesterday my wife's friend was crying
My wife approached her & asked her why
She replied "I visited my 12 years old son in the hospital. He is suffering from final stage of cancer. my son said to me, mom very soon you won't be coming to see me. I will die soon, maybe next month".

I am speechless after heard that. 12 years old boy, knowing that he will die soon
Very sad, this boy must but my mature to say this...This the senario we get everyday if we work in the children cancer wad, which is more depressing then the adult wad. Children crying, parents demanding the doctors for miracle treatment, nurses kept on distrubing us for intravenous line and so not non stop 24-7. But the advance of technology and medical field in the Paediatrics actually help millions of children world wide. I got a brother, which is second after me died at 10 years old in the 80's from leukemia(ALL). I know how is feels..But this inspired me to be doctor to help others but end up being O&G just because I don't like working in childrens wad..At that time the treatment of ALL is in the infantile stage which the doctor also don't know how and which to give. But now ALL is so easy to treat. :(

[Voon Chan]

Sorry to hear about your brother Alfred.
I really appreciate your contribution to this thread. You are willing to share good info with the members here. Thank you

[CaLz]

actually i've learned a lot of things about cancer in this thread... must keep in mind...
thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread

[Voon Chan]

Must give repo to all good contributors here:p actually i've learned a lot of things about cancer in this thread... must keep in mind...
thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread

[daBoss]

hmm... just came across this thread...

me? i'm still relatively young... money can still earn... even if final stage liao, as long as there is still hope, i would even borrow money for my wife's treatment...

[alfred98]

Yesterday night on TV3 showing Gray's Anatomy. They have shown this the senario I was talking on the Carcinoma of Breast one. The same advice was given, one moment the lady decided to terminate the pregnancy. But next minutes she decided for the pregnancy as her mother also did the same for her, when the mum was having her. So she was alive till today because of the sacrifice that the mum did for her. Now she decided to keep this pregnancy...

[andrewjpan]

ok ok ... i'm gonna lari topic a lil...

i now this guy, a good friend of mine, went to his wedding early last year. i got a call from him, he told me that his wife was in a coma for about a month. i went to see them at the hospital on new year's eve. she was 6 months pregnant then.

it seems that she had chicken pox, and she went for traditional (malay) treatment, next thing... she goes into a coma... the virus had attacked her brain... that's what the doctor said la...

come end of december she was already 6 months pregnant, the decision was either to have a cesarean or to let the baby go... having a cesarean, both the baby and the wife would have a chance to survive... BUT... both would be very weak, chances of either living would be very low... letting the baby go, would give the wife a very very chance of surviving....

he wanted to let the baby go, but her side of the family wanted the child...
the cesarean was done on dec 28, i visited them on dec 31...

i had a phone call on the 1st, just after lunch... the wife had passed away...

[h2o]

omg!!!

[andrewjpan]

i was in a crappy mood for the whole week

[LiLiaN]

that's very sad indeed.... :(

[Sarah]

ok ok ... i'm gonna lari topic a lil...

i now this guy, a good friend of mine, went to his wedding early last year. i got a call from him, he told me that his wife was in a coma for about a month. i went to see them at the hospital on new year's eve. she was 6 months pregnant then.

it seems that she had chicken pox, and she went for traditional (malay) treatment, next thing... she goes into a coma... the virus had attacked her brain... that's what the doctor said la...

come end of december she was already 6 months pregnant, the decision was either to have a cesarean or to let the baby go... having a cesarean, both the baby and the wife would have a chance to survive... BUT... both would be very weak, chances of either living would be very low... letting the baby go, would give the wife a very very chance of surviving....

he wanted to let the baby go, but her side of the family wanted the child...
the cesarean was done on dec 28, i visited them on dec 31...

i had a phone call on the 1st, just after lunch... the wife had passed away...

Oh noo.... :( :sad-2: what abt the baby???

[Dino]

This is why i am really against traditional methods used as the main choice of treatment. Sh!t....pissed me off to hear of such things!! :mad:

[LiLiaN]

well, traditional treatment is not always like this...
there are times when modern treatments fail us too...
sometimes, it's hard to weigh which way best to go...

[Dino]

well, traditional treatment is not always like this...
there are times when modern treatments fail us too...
sometimes, it's hard to weigh which way best to go...

I would surely go for modern first....than traditional. I think modern medicine has a better track record.

[LiLiaN]

I would surely go for modern first....than traditional. I think modern medicine has a better track record.i don't know... i mean, i live in modern world and all... and a scientist in training at that too...
but i have also seen first hand how well some traditional methods work...
granted, for something major and serious, modern is perhaps the way to go... :)

[Dino]

Parallel is probably the way to go....

[LiLiaN]

Parallel is probably the way to go....yes! combine the best of both worlds certainly can't go very far wrong...

[SS2006]

yes! combine the best of both worlds certainly can't go very far wrong...
Sometimes one treatment got side effect on another. Should let the doctor knows what other alternative treatment you are getting at the same time.
Never self medicate.

[siewjang]

hmm... just came across this thread...

me? i'm still relatively young... money can still earn... even if final stage liao, as long as there is still hope, i would even borrow money for my wife's treatment...
Daboss, how about if you put yourself in your wife position. Would you go on with the treatment and let wife borrow money from ppl? My hubby said the same thing as you actually. But I told him I rather die if really there is no hope. I do not want him to be in debt.

[SS2006]

I think it's more about dying with dignity and making the fullest use of the little time left rather than money. Let's say a cancer patient has only 3 months left with little hope even with chemo. I would rather make the fullest use the 3 months to spend with my loved ones and tie up whatever loose ends i can and get the family ready for the future without me while the mind is still sound. With chemo, the body and mind will be fighting with the side effect and you are not yourself, if i'm not wrong. What if the treatment cannot cure, wouldn't i be wasting away the precious 3 months? It's a tough choice to make, with a high price to pay both way.

[CaLz]

I think it's more about dying with dignity and making the fullest use of the little time left rather than money. Let's say a cancer patient has only 3 months left with little hope even with chemo. I would rather make the fullest use the 3 months to spend with my loved ones and tie up whatever loose ends i can and get the family ready for the future without me while the mind is still sound. With chemo, the body and mind will be fighting with the side effect and you are not yourself, if i'm not wrong. What if the treatment cannot cure, wouldn't i be wasting away the precious 3 months? It's a tough choice to make, with a high price to pay both way.

yea if for me i would also spent the rest of my time with my loved ones rather than facing the machinery.

[alfred98]

Andrewjpan! Your friend wife in which hospital leh...I need to KPC abit lor..
The tradisional medication is sometime ok but most of the time is bad for the patients. Imagine we got a patient in UH, she had Carcinoma of Cervix diagnosed at stage 1B which is treatable. But she decided to go for ozone therapy and valuable time is lost. She come back after few months and she was in stage 4, and now she demand for a treatment for her. She was in such a bad stage that we had to tell her to reserve her remaining money for the ceremony. Her money all used to pay for the ozone therapy..
Sometime not all doctor will consider treatment for advance stage of cancer. The best is for paliative care. But sometime this patient seek private treament and the doctor will said can be treated and come back angry with the first doctor for refusing then the treatment, but at the end they will also dead and pennyless...

[SS2006]

Alfred, Traditional and modern medic can contradict one another or not? I mean not just for cancer but for other normal sick.

[alfred98]

Alfred, Traditional and modern medic can contradict one another or not? I mean not just for cancer but for other normal sick.
Can but in certain case. The problem with so called tradisional medicine is they have no data or study to back up their drugs, and if there is also they don't use the normal procedure to get this recognition from the medical society. The other problem is they are too commercialised liao, they cliamed everything also can be used..But for me tradisional therapy is still ok compared with the alternative therapy, the one eg is ozone therapy and the other so called ultrasonic therapy which had being cheating people all along. This ultrasonic therapy had being given by a O&G specialist in Ipoh and half of CTA1 female probably see him before....

[Lava Gal]

traditional medication might have high amount of steroids, not all i guess. but it can create lots of side effetcs...and some compounds might cause cross reaction with modern medicines being consumed!
as far as i know, if traditional treatment seeked doesnt interrupt wif ongoing modern treatment (eg - massage), Drs will not interfere wif patients wish

[SS2006]

traditional medication might have high amount of steroids, not all i guess. but it can create lots of side effetcs...and some compounds might cause cross reaction with modern medicines being consumed!
as far as i know, if traditional treatment seeked doesnt interrupt wif ongoing modern treatment (eg - massage), Drs will not interfere wif patients wish
Traditional med got a lot of trace metal...even lead in it. And most ingredients not listed on the packaging.

[Lava Gal]

Can but in certain case. The problem with so called tradisional medicine is they have no data or study to back up their drugs, and if there is also they don't use the normal procedure to get this recognition from the medical society. The other problem is they are too commercialised liao, they cliamed everything also can be used..But for me tradisional therapy is still ok compared with the alternative therapy, the one eg is ozone therapy and the other so called ultrasonic therapy which had being cheating people all along. This ultrasonic therapy had being given by a O&G specialist in Ipoh and half of CTA1 female probably see him before....
talking about ozone therapy, while in HAT lumut, saw a diabetic patient who went for ozone therapy (presumed to 'cure' his disease) only to end up scarring both heels (as he didnt FEEL the pain, due to diabetes). the wound didnt heal...worsened...and he ended up coming in for hyperbaric oxygen treatment!
the situation is what i'd liken to 'pouring hot water on your feet'...burn hole in pocket + on heels too! poor man...

[alfred98]

talking about ozone therapy, while in HAT lumut, saw a diabetic patient who went for ozone therapy (presumed to 'cure' his disease) only to end up scarring both heels (as he didnt FEEL the pain, due to diabetes). the wound didnt heal...worsened...and he ended up coming in for hyperbaric oxygen treatment!
the situation is what i'd liken to 'pouring hot water on your feet'...burn hole in pocket + on heels too! poor man...
That's why I had mention for public this therapy are good and give a cure by the mouth only. But one case for then is insignificant as they are paying for it, so they don't blame anyone else. If such a case happen in the hospital, next day come out in the press.
Lava! I hope you know what is ozone and which is hyperbaric therapy...
Lumut Hospital is the most advance in Hyperbaric Hospital in South East Asia...

[Voon Chan]

A lot of of people are looking at "altenative medicine" for cancer. Some say that it is a miracle. Some say it will worsen cancer. Ultimately, Who has the correct answer?

[SS2006]

A lot of of people are looking at "altenative medicine" for cancer. Some say that it is a miracle. Some say it will worsen cancer. Ultimately, Who has the correct answer?
There is no miracle....ultimately it will depend on how strong your body is in fighting the cancer cells. Therefore it is important to take good care of your body.

[athena]

A lot of of people are looking at "altenative medicine" for cancer. Some say that it is a miracle. Some say it will worsen cancer. Ultimately, Who has the correct answer?
my mom, have seen a case of traditional medicine kiling a lady with breast cancer. breast cancer is 'curable'

[alfred98]

my mom, have seen a case of traditional medicine kiling a lady with breast cancer. breast cancer is 'curable'
We don't actually use this curable word in cancer. Just because we don't know when it will we back...recurrents lor. We use survival rate, if a person survived 5 years or more, he or she is considered survived the cancer. The problem is some of the cancer recurrents after 20 years and still the patient died for this...

[athena]

We don't actually use this curable word in cancer. Just because we don't know when it will we back...recurrents lor. We use survival rate, if a person survived 5 years or more, he or she is considered survived the cancer. The problem is some of the cancer recurrents after 20 years and still the patient died for this...
haha..i dunno the word mah....so put curable in quotes lor :P

[alfred98]

A lot of of people are looking at "altenative medicine" for cancer. Some say that it is a miracle. Some say it will worsen cancer. Ultimately, Who has the correct answer?
Alternative treatment is almost like faith healing. The power is so strong the patient believe actually cure the patient but I don't know how. What can be explianed is the initial diagnosis might be wrong and this group survived...What I see in this group if the initial diagnosis is correct then the cancer cell will recurrs.

[Lava Gal]

That's why I had mention for public this therapy are good and give a cure by the mouth only. But one case for then is insignificant as they are paying for it, so they don't blame anyone else. If such a case happen in the hospital, next day come out in the press.
Lava! I hope you know what is ozone and which is hyperbaric therapy...
Lumut Hospital is the most advance in Hyperbaric Hospital in South East Asia...
aye aye, captain! maybe my sentence was confusing. i'm quite clear...ozone (O3) therapy worsened his condition. so now, he's undergoing hyperbaric treatment to cure his wound

yup....HAT is...has to be, with a chamber costing 4.7million!

haha..i dunno the word mah....so put curable in quotes lor :P
i believe REMISSION is the word u are looking for, ath dear :)

[h2o]

Alternative treatment is almost like faith healing. The power is so strong the patient believe actually cure the patient but I don't know how. What can be explianed is the initial diagnosis might be wrong and this group survived...What I see in this group if the initial diagnosis is correct then the cancer cell will recurrs.
u talking abt placebo effect?

[alfred98]

u talking abt placebo effect?
I please U lor-placebo!! Some sort just cannot be explianed...:D