Is Women to be blamed for Man Chorelesstism?

[siewjang]

*&@^%#*

I tell you. This is a curse that pass down thru generation.

First will be their mother, then their wife. Luckly my hubby is the type that will help out in house chores. Buttttttttttttttt, out of 10 chores he only does 3 of them. Yalor, that is very good liao. Some just don't lift up their finger.

Tell me what you think? Should they learn the meaning of equal right?

[KoChun]

Get a maid, Jang. Get a maid, all problems solved instantly. :p

[Sarah]

Jang... this is not really equal right for me...

"women should be submissive, and husband ought to love the wife as Christ loves the church"

so, women should automatically do the household chores...that's women's responsibility (sure lots of women here will "hantam" me one)... however... man if they love their wives enough, they will help as much as they can...

[vicky boy]

equal rights????? hmm........ let me see..... well i do all of them myself.... and i think when come to equal rights when i get married is she do her own stuff and i do mine.... hahahahahahahhaaaaaa :eek:

[KoChun]

Jang... this is not really equal right for me...

"women should be submissive, and husband ought to love the wife as Christ loves the church"

so, women should automatically do the household chores...that's women's responsibility (sure lots of women here will "hantam" me one)... however... man if they love their wives enough, they will help as much as they can...
Clap clap clap, well said, well said!!! :)

[Sarah]

Some man however, are too lazy and selfish... not that they CANT do... they work, come back say they are tired... the wife also work wat... so, come back not tired laa...

if the wife is full-time homemaker, that's fine, you know??But she's working, somemore give birth for their men... hehe.. : )

[vicky boy]

Jang... this is not really equal right for me...

"women should be submissive, and husband ought to love the wife as Christ loves the church"

so, women should automatically do the household chores...that's women's responsibility (sure lots of women here will "hantam" me one)... however... man if they love their wives enough, they will help as much as they can...
oh my................ how i wish how i wish... but too late, already taken......... haizzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Dino]

Just curious, can you share the 10 chores you mentioned.....

[vicky boy]

Some man however, are too lazy and selfish... not that they CANT do... they work, come back say they are tired... the wife also work wat... so, come back not tired laa...

if the wife is full-time homemaker, that's fine, you know??But she's working, somemore give birth for their men... hehe.. : )
eh change so fast one????????????? :huh:

[Sarah]

so basically, i resign to the fact that, i have to be submissive... if my man won't help me with the household chores... I can't expect him to.

[Dino]

so basically, i resign to the fact that, i have to be submissive... if my man won't help me with the household chores... I can't expect him to.

I personally do not agree with teachings that just tell women to obey men. I think its just sexists. In any event, i personally think that if i can help out my wife, i will....marriage is a partnership.....no such thing as all the burden on one party. Just my opinion.

[KoChun]

Some man however, are too lazy and selfish... not that they CANT do... they work, come back say they are tired... the wife also work wat... so, come back not tired laa...

if the wife is full-time homemaker, that's fine, you know??But she's working, somemore give birth for their men... hehe.. : )
You too, Artemis. Get a maid.

[Voon Chan]

I personally do not agree with teachings that just tell women to obey men. I think its just sexists. In any event, i personally think that if i can help out my wife, i will....marriage is a partnership.....no such thing as all the burden on one party. Just my opinion.I agree with you.
A good partner will form a happy family

[Sarah]

Just curious, can you share the 10 chores you mentioned.....

eh.. household chores dun play play ar.... obviously, you have no idea how stressful and frustrating it can be to do household chores...

I can help Jang to name..

1) cook (cook alone also no easy task)

2) have to buy food, check if there's any food left, make a list of what to buy, to think of all these also tiring ar..

3) prepare food

4) wash up after every meal... clean up kitchen...

5) throw rubbish

6) wash clothes, dry clothes, iron clothes...

7) vacuum floor, sweep floor, mop floor

8) wash bathroom

9) have to make sure no dust around the house eg. on top of shelf, on top of TV, comp, tables... etc...

10) if got kids, have to take care... this point alone can be subdivided to another 10 jobs i tell u...

[vicky boy]

well jang..... its give and take.... for me myself i will surely do whatever that will help up, living together also helping each other mah.... more a home is build by two pairs of hands.... if one not working, the home like lack of something....

like wise u said ur hubby does 3/10 of the task... he is very good liau......

[vicky boy]

eh.. household chores dun play play ar.... obviously, you have no idea how stressful and frustrating it can be to do household chores...

I can help Jang to name..

10) if got kids, have to take care... this point alone can be subdivided to another 10 jobs i tell u...
so art.... bila ada andrew jr and baby art????

[Sarah]

I personally do not agree with teachings that just tell women to obey men. I think its just sexists. In any event, i personally think that if i can help out my wife, i will....marriage is a partnership.....no such thing as all the burden on one party. Just my opinion.

that's very true...in the future I will make sure both my son(s) and daughter(s) share in all household chores.. must train them...

unfortunately, I'm brought up in a family where the males are truly MCP ones..

eg.. they just come home and eat, then leave the plates on the table and walk away.. women have to be everyready there to serve them... bring them this, bring them that...

[Sarah]

so art.... bila ada andrew jr and baby art????

dunno laa :sad-2: ... i hope i can have baby NOW!!!! but have to depend on funkmeister maa... "seed" comes from him ler... hehe... :p

[vicky boy]

that's very true...in the future I will make sure both my son(s) and daughter(s) share in all household chores.. must train them...

unfortunately, I'm brought up in a family where the males are truly MCP ones..

eg.. they just come home and eat, then leave the plates on the table and walk away.. women have to be everyready there to serve them... bring them this, bring them that...
hahahaha opposite on my house..... we guys do all the dirty jobs............ and girls will be watching TV :h:

[vicky boy]

dunno laa :sad-2: ... i hope i can have baby NOW!!!! but have to depend on funkmeister maa... "seed" comes from him ler... hehe... :p
aiks.......... ok ok i will hint hint him then.......... emmm if he knows me.... hahahahahhahahahahhaaaaa :p

[Dino]

Speaking of washing and drying clothes, may i suggest a investing in a dryer.
You know ever since i came over the US, i have never worried about drying or ironing my clothes. Using a dryer eliminates ironing clothes big time. I think the last time i iron my clothes is about 1 year ago.....(for special function)...

[Sarah]

aiks.......... ok ok i will hint hint him then.......... emmm if he knows me.... hahahahahhahahahahhaaaaa :p

i think he remembers u... :)

but this kind of thing cannot say to him one.. if not he thinks I'm so KPC... maybe I am... but still cannot make it obvious to him maa...

[Sarah]

Speaking of washing and drying clothes, may i suggest a investing in a dryer.
You know ever since i came over the US, i have never worried about drying or ironing my clothes. Using a dryer eliminates ironing clothes big time. I think the last time i iron my clothes is about 1 year ago.....(for special function)...

Yess... ahah... i know abt it... will be great to get one... hey Dino, after it dries in the washing machine ar... do u need to iron it??? doesnt it crumple???

[Sarah]

hahahaha opposite on my house..... we guys do all the dirty jobs............ and girls will be watching TV :h:

wah :eek: ... the girls soo lucky ler..

[vicky boy]

i think he remembers u... :)

but this kind of thing cannot say to him one.. if not he thinks I'm so KPC... maybe I am... but still cannot make it obvious to him maa...
wah still wanna say in public channel... later he sees this how???? ok ok shall drop this topic.......

[Dino]

Yess... ahah... i know abt it... will be great to get one... hey Dino, after it dries in the washing machine ar... do u need to iron it??? doesnt it crumple???

If you put your clothes straight from washer to dryer, and right after drying you hang your clothes, you don't really need to iron your clothes. Its wonderful i tell you!!

[Voon Chan]

If you put your clothes straight from washer to dryer, and right after drying you hang your clothes, you don't really need to iron your clothes. Its wonderful i tell you!!I learn something here

[vicky boy]

Speaking of washing and drying clothes, may i suggest a investing in a dryer.
You know ever since i came over the US, i have never worried about drying or ironing my clothes. Using a dryer eliminates ironing clothes big time. I think the last time i iron my clothes is about 1 year ago.....(for special function)...
hhahahahahah dryer??? well all my shirts are crumple free... so i never need to iron my shirts.......

[Sarah]

If you put your clothes straight from washer to dryer, and right after drying you hang your clothes, you don't really need to iron your clothes. Its wonderful i tell you!!

greaatttt!! will think of getting one then... haha..

[Dino]

I learn something here

Yeah...imagine how happy i was to learn that i don't have to even iron my clothes when i got here!!! Oh happy day!!!! :)
Make sure you hang your clothes straight away when the dryer finishes, if you leave it in there, then will crumple!!!

[buff]

dunno laa :sad-2: ... i hope i can have baby NOW!!!! but have to depend on funkmeister maa... "seed" comes from him ler... hehe... :p

aiya, with ur expert knowledge in this area should be no problem :amused:

[athena]

aiya, with ur expert knowledge in this area should be no problem :amused:
you're suggesting that ARTIE should MILK funkmeister if he's reluctant??:eek:

[Dino]

you're suggesting that ARTIE should MILK funkmeister if he's reluctant??:eek:

Holy shit!!! http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/vghc/jawdrop.gif

[Voon Chan]

you're suggesting that ARTIE should MILK funkmeister if he's reluctant??:eek:cannot imagine that:eek:

[buff]

you're suggesting that ARTIE should MILK funkmeister if he's reluctant??:eek:

how did housechores turn to milking ah? is this one of the 'normal' chore of a housewife? :wacko:

[WitchKing]

I try to automate my home as much as possible to lessen wife's chore tediousness. So far we got the you do what i do what down pat. My side normally involves lawn mowing, hammers and stuff. She does what is normally the wife chore stuff.

actually I do help out in the washing and vacuuming, but she normally tells me not to bother doing those coz she sez i 'cut corners' :laugh: . HEY!! WHO AM I TO ARGUE?! :p

[athena]

haha..din know my statement could trigger so many responses...this is all buff's fault!!! :sus:

[Dino]

haha..din know my statement could trigger so many responses...this is all buff's fault!!! :sus:

Do you do the milking as a chore then??? :laugh:

[Voon Chan]

actually I do help out in the washing and vacuuming, but she normally tells me not to bother doing those coz she sez i 'cut corners' :laugh: . HEY!! WHO AM I TO ARGUE?! :phahahahaha!

[Alkapocino]

I personally do not agree with teachings that just tell women to obey men. I think its just sexists. In any event, i personally think that if i can help out my wife, i will....marriage is a partnership.....no such thing as all the burden on one party. Just my opinion.
Hahaha..I knew Dino's gonna jump the gun.

Artemis was saying submissive to her husband lah...not obeying men! When your wife is submissive and you are so loving...hmmmm....things will work really well. If it's the other way round...how ar? :D

[Dino]

Hahaha..I knew Dino's gonna jump the gun.

Artemis was saying submissive to her husband lah...not obeying men! When your wife is submissive and you are so loving...hmmmm....things will work really well. If it's the other way round...how ar? :D

So basically you are saying that women should shut up and do it willingly laaa....

[Alkapocino]

So basically you are saying that women should shut up and do it willingly laaa....
If they don't, should the man? I believe in sharing the chores else get a maid. :)

[athena]

Do you do the milking as a chore then??? :laugh:
haha..i get my milk from the hypermarket, thank you very much! :D

[Voon Chan]

haha..i get my milk from the hypermarket, thank you very much! :DEasier that way!
But not so fresh!

[Dino]

If they don't, should the man? I believe in sharing the chores else get a maid. :)

Aiyah....don't care submissive or obeying....its a partnership laaa....both should do share the workload....any thing that teach one party to shut up or anything like that i don't think its right.

[Alkapocino]

Aiyah....don't care submissive or obeying....its a partnership laaa....both should do share the workload....
True. That's what it meants.

It's like you do the laundry I do the ironing. You do the cooking, I do the eating and washing right? Perfect.

[Dino]

True. That's what it meants.

It's like you do the laundry I do the ironing. You do the cooking, I do the eating and washing right? Perfect.

Yup.....but if got dryer, then one wash, one hang up the clothes only. Easy!!!

:laugh: :laugh:

[Dino]

haha..i get my milk from the hypermarket, thank you very much! :D

Hehehehehe...tried to dodge the question eh!!!!

[vicky boy]

Hahaha..I knew Dino's gonna jump the gun.

Artemis was saying submissive to her husband lah...not obeying men! When your wife is submissive and you are so loving...hmmmm....things will work really well. If it's the other way round...how ar? :D
die.... one word die...... the usband in big trouble

[vicky boy]

Easier that way!
But not so fresh!
hahaha u want fresh???? i learn this from meet the parent part one.... "U can Milk anything with nipples"

[buff]

haha..i get my milk from the hypermarket, thank you very much! :D

yeew.. gross... very gross... i'm quite sure u can't get the 'milk' from hypermarket ... or can u :eek: :amazed:

[buff]

hahaha u want fresh???? i learn this from meet the parent part one.... "U can Milk anything with nipples"

read ath's post again... i dun think any nipple is involved here... :huh:

[vicky boy]

read ath's post again... i dun think any nipple is involved here... :huh:
well i always relate milk with nipples..... there is where its coming from..... arent they???? :p

[athena]

read ath's post again... i dun think any nipple is involved here... :huh:
eeeeee....this buff very notti...twist my post!!!

[WitchKing]

well i always relate milk with nipples..... there is where its coming from..... arent they???? :p

Weh! can we not tok about nipples ahh. I got F4 Susan Storm as wallpaper on notebook, my head going sumwhere else oledi with all the unchorelated tok2... :o

[buff]

Weh! can we not tok about nipples ahh. I got F4 Susan Storm as wallpaper on notebook, my head going sumwhere else oledi with all the unchorelated tok2... :o

pardon my ignorance, but who's sue? :o

[WitchKing]

pardon my ignorance, but who's sue? :o

Somebody pls post a pic of goddess Jessica Alba.

[buff]

eeeeee....this buff very notti...twist my post!!!

i am notti... NOT... someone (dun know who) started talking abt 'milk' first...
now, where art the teacher when u need her?

[vicky boy]

where is the thread owner????? open a thread and she just posted one post...... scratch my head.... :rolleyes:

[Dino]

Somebody pls post a pic of goddess Jessica Alba.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/vghc/sincitybreve2.jpg

[vicky boy]

aiks... sini bukan check check thread lah.......

[siewjang]

If you put your clothes straight from washer to dryer, and right after drying you hang your clothes, you don't really need to iron your clothes. Its wonderful i tell you!!
Yup, this is true. When I was in Brisbane, don't have to worry about ironing. Just fold the clothes straight from the dryer.

[siewjang]

where is the thread owner????? open a thread and she just posted one post...... scratch my head.... :rolleyes:
Busy with work la. Anyway, this is how it was supposed to be. Tok la. I listen.

[Sarah]

you're suggesting that ARTIE should MILK funkmeister if he's reluctant??:eek:

huh?? wat the??? eew..

[Sarah]

how did housechores turn to milking ah? is this one of the 'normal' chore of a housewife? :wacko:

whattt??? what's all these about??? :amazed: no comment!!!!

[Sarah]

hahaha u want fresh???? i learn this from meet the parent part one.... "U can Milk anything with nipples"

hahahahaha!

[Sarah]

now now.. i didn't say milk here in this thread ar... my "milk" thread all in underground one ar....

who started it one ar??? lemme see!!

[vicky boy]

now now.. i didn't say milk here in this thread ar... my "milk" thread all in underground one ar....

who started it one ar??? lemme see!!
u found the culprit????

[Sarah]

oohh... kekekeke.... hehe ! :o

Ath...go edit your thread!! hehe

[vicky boy]

oohh... kekekeke.... hehe ! :o

Ath...go edit your thread!! hehe
aiyo what is writen is writen... no need to edit lah.... hahahahhahaaaa

[Lava Gal]

Juz found tis thread....1stly..i find the word CHORELESSTISM intrsting...didnt know it existed :o

to answer the Q (title of thread)...YES!! of coz men needs to offer to share chores etc...hats off to those non-mcp who help moms/wifes/sisters around d house...

but some moms/grandmoms have a tendency to spoil sons...like tell them no need 2 wash plate etc...not manly :mad: (konon)
then these boys grow up believing it....and pass on to sons...unless the women make a point tat they would appreciate some help, and encourages participation...who else to blame if men dont life a finger?

[shiruikage]

equal rights? wat is equal rights? :o

[daBoss]

both men and women have their own duties... in some households, the men do the chores and in others women... just that the cases where men do the chores are much less...

i admit i don't do the chores at home but i have my share of other responsibilities. it's an understanding between dalady and me...

[shiruikage]

and that is equal rights to u? all to everyone? i am very confused. :wacko:

[daBoss]

and that is equal rights to u? all to everyone? i am very confused. :wacko:
no sure if you're referring to my post... if so, why not?

i have my strengths and dalady has hers... when a task comes along that i am better suited to perform, i do it... no questions...

both of us are relatively successful in our careers... so it's nothing to do with money... she's happy, i'm happy, why not?

[shiruikage]

equal in wat sense? here, i see some women who cried out for equal rights but when go out for dinner or something, they expect a man to pay, citing that men must be gentleman. wat i meant is that they see everything as in man and women. demanding equal treatment to the rewards, but decline to do the equal amount of work.

granted that some i know are equal in almost every term but the physical, and hmmm, strangely, they are not the feminist that cried out for equality. and is feminist (this word is itself says pro-women) equals equality?

and daboss, ur relationship with dalady is what i consider normal. and i think that all couple (married) should behave as thus. too bad the world ain't a perfect place.

[LiLiaN]

there's no strict equality, just a balance between gift and take between the parties involved... as long as everyone's happy with the arrangement, then it's fair...

[shiruikage]

there's no strict equality, just a balance between gift and take between the parties involved... as long as everyone's happy with the arrangement, then it's fair...
ic and what is ur position on feminism? or on enpowering women? or the fact that they are dedicated ministries that take care of "women welfare"? are they all as tey advertised it?

[LiLiaN]

ic and what is ur position on feminism? or on enpowering women? or the fact that they are dedicated ministries that take care of "women welfare"? are they all as tey advertised it?i am not a feminist and i don't have the answer to your questions... for me, as long as something is acceptable by my standard (for myself), there's no reason for me to impose what i prefer to another person... need a happy balance, that's it... (am i making sense? probably not... brain dead...)

[shiruikage]

i am not a feminist and i don't have the answer to your questions... for me, as long as something is acceptable by my standard (for myself), there's no reason for me to impose what i prefer to another person... need a happy balance, that's it... (am i making sense? probably not... brain dead...)
u got permanent head injury girl, no wonder ur brain is dieing lar. :laugh: anyway, ur answer is neutral. lol, donno whether it is good or not. but acceptable to me.

however, the bolded statement, what do u mean? u mean that as long as something is acceptable to u, u see no need to impose ur preference on someone else. but if it is not acceptable, u will impose ur preference it on that someone? or did i just misquoted u?

[ungsutiong]

Courting stage (per-marriage) - both parties would willingly sacrifice to walk the extra mile & talk of eternal love.
1st year of marriage - both parties willingly sacrificed to walk the extra mile & be extra nice to all in-laws.
7 years later - both parties are tired of being nice & make less sacrifice. in-laws became outlaws.
15 years later - husband advise son to choose wife wisely. wife advise daughter not to trust men.
This pattern may continue for generations.

[LiLiaN]

u got permanent head injury girl, no wonder ur brain is dieing lar. :laugh: anyway, ur answer is neutral. lol, donno whether it is good or not. but acceptable to me.

however, the bolded statement, what do u mean? u mean that as long as something is acceptable to u, u see no need to impose ur preference on someone else. but if it is not acceptable, u will impose ur preference it on that someone? or did i just misquoted u?what i was trying to say was, for example, on pay equality... as long as i have an offer of salary that i believe to justly reward my ability, then it's good enough for me... i don't need to have the exact same pay as a guy of comparable ability/level... why fret over something i could not change and be upset in the process of it..?

if it's something not acceptable to me, then there's even no reason why i should impose it one someone else...

[Lava Gal]

Courting stage (per-marriage) - both parties would willingly sacrifice to walk the extra mile & talk of eternal love.
1st year of marriage - both parties willingly sacrificed to walk the extra mile & be extra nice to all in-laws.
7 years later - both parties are tired of being nice & make less sacrifice. in-laws became outlaws.
15 years later - husband advise son to choose wife wisely. wife advise daughter not to trust men.
This pattern may continue for generations.
sad, but true in some cases, eh? :blink:
i think it all depends la...as they say, familiarity breeds contempt

[Sarah]

equal in wat sense? here, i see some women who cried out for equal rights but when go out for dinner or something, they expect a man to pay, citing that men must be gentleman. wat i meant is that they see everything as in man and women. demanding equal treatment to the rewards, but decline to do the equal amount of work.

granted that some i know are equal in almost every term but the physical, and hmmm, strangely, they are not the feminist that cried out for equality. and is feminist (this word is itself says pro-women) equals equality?

and daboss, ur relationship with dalady is what i consider normal. and i think that all couple (married) should behave as thus. too bad the world ain't a perfect place.

These kind of women are just too free laa... got time to think abt other's fault, no time to think of own's fault... they dun have to "shout" out for equality, if they are smart and capable and know how to treat the guys/husband right, men are at their fingertips... treat others how u want to be treated...

still.. i'm bever a believer of equality, that's just NEVER gonna happen...

[Lava Gal]

wow....men are at fingertips eh...hmm...there's a point there though, Artie

[shiruikage]

i beliv in equality too. for example, they are many occupation that a man can do, a woman can do better. soldiering, research, leadership, almost everything. yes, even tuang tong sampah! :laugh:

[Lava Gal]

i beliv in equality too. for example, they are many occupation that a man can do, a woman can do better. soldiering, research, leadership, almost everything. yes, even tuang tong sampah! :laugh:
wei..apa ni ah :mad: make us all sound like MDM workers ni ah... :laugh: :laugh: not realli mad...juz pretending abit ya

[shiruikage]

wei..apa ni ah :mad: make us all sound like MDM workers ni ah... :laugh: :laugh: not realli mad...juz pretending abit ya
lol, i think i misquoted myself, i din meant to say do better, but meant to say do just as well.

[Lava Gal]

haha...apalah shirui! ya lo....
better = not equal!
as good as = equal!!

[shiruikage]

haha...apalah shirui! ya lo....
better = not equal!
as good as = equal!!
phew, lucky retract dengan cepat. if not, kena marah by the boys pulak. :laugh:

[Lava Gal]

watz in the mind, manifests i words...so we know watz ur REAL STAND....on behalf of all d gals of tis forum...a big thank u;)

[shiruikage]

watz in the mind, manifests i words...so we know watz ur REAL STAND....on behalf of all d gals of tis forum...a big thank u;)
eh, don thank me. if not i kena outkast by the boys, network hilang u know. and btw, u girls got something lilke the old girls club or not leh?

[Lava Gal]

u mean the girls in this forumm...or generally as in with ex-schoolmates?

[shiruikage]

u mean the girls in this forumm...or generally as in with ex-schoolmates?
i donno. u tell me. like a support structure of all girls theat know each other. example: like da old boys club, one guy need somebody to do something specific, he ask his ex-college buddy, who then contact his buddy and so on till he get the person blah blah blah. lor. something like dat. the story is more involved than tdat, but u get the idea. so, anything like dat? or put it this way, 6 degrees of seperation...but oni involving girls.

[Lava Gal]

for me...not realli...but i do have contacts (old frenz) if different fields...so if anything, a few sms-es around...then msn SOS...and latest our forum's members exchange...tatz enuff for me to fall back on ;)
no need to be so sexist ma...gals or guys...if can help each other out...juzta do it lo

[shiruikage]

for me...not realli...but i do have contacts (old frenz) if different fields...so if anything, a few sms-es around...then msn SOS...and latest our forum's members exchange...tatz enuff for me to fall back on ;)
no need to be so sexist ma...gals or guys...if can help each other out...juzta do it lo
lol, just a name one givs to old acquintances.

[LiLiaN]

don't think there's quite such an old girl club, so to speak...
female networking works very differently...
usually for emotional support rather than for advantageous gains...

[Lava Gal]

we can alwiyz form one here...any takers :p

[Lava Gal]

don't think there's quite such an old girl club, so to speak...
female networking works very differently...
usually for emotional support rather than for advantageous gains...
agree...coz some frenz u have emotionally bonded with hor....whereva they are ~ howeva long u nvr meet dee...when i have a problem, and call them up (my best fren 4m school)/ msn (my best fren drg KL days, now overseas) u juz know they understand :D

[shiruikage]

don't think there's quite such an old girl club, so to speak...
female networking works very differently...
usually for emotional support rather than for advantageous gains...
ahhh, ic ic, so there is such a thing, but for totally different reason. hmm, ic ic.

[Lava Gal]

now u see clearly shirui? ;) haha...like chipsmore ni lar...*now u see...now u dont!*

[shiruikage]

now u see clearly shirui? ;) haha...like chipsmore ni lar...*now u see...now u dont!*
now i see...and i still see! lol.