MJ: Guilty or Innocent? It is important?

[athena]

Was reading some news concerning the most recent allegation of Michael Jackson. I was thinking to myself, whether the man is innocent or not? izzit important? taking the 1993 similar event, he paid off his accuser. so his innocence or guilt was never proven. Ppl form their own opinion of what happened. yet, 10 yrs down the road, MJ, is in court again!



PS: this is a miserable attempt to get more posts in 1998...come on 98ers....

[Sarah]

First time, may be some mistakes. But second time, Don't think I believe him anymore. According to the news here, even his lawyers are asking him to plead guilty, as the polices have all the evidence against him, yet he said he won't plead guilty as he "loves" them..

Well.. watever it is, its NOT important!

Ppl rise, ppl fall..

[athena]

Michael Jackson's defense attorney Tuesday went after the credibility of the brother of the teenage boy accusing the pop star of child molestation, challenging the boy's account of seeing the singer grope his brother.

Under cross-examination from defense attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr., the brother also admitted Tuesday that he lied in a deposition given in a civil suit.

In a dramatic exchange, Mesereau told the jury that the magazine that the brother testified Jackson showed them at the singer's Neverland Ranch was dated August 2003 -- months after the boys stopped going to the Jackson estate.

"I'm telling you, it's not exactly the one he showed us," the brother said, insisting that the magazine they saw was of the same type.

The brother, now 14, repeatedly claimed an absence of memory in response to Mesereau's questions, saying that given his school work and tests, "most of that stuff leaves my memory."

"I know everything happened," the brother said. "I just don't remembers details ... not all the details."

The defense cross-examination of the brother will resume Wednesday morning, after court adjourned early Tuesday afternoon.

After watching his attorney successfully challenge his accuser's brother on the stand, Jackson "felt better today, at court's end, than he did yesterday," his publicist, Raymone Bain, said in a statement.

During the brother's testimony, Jackson sat still in his chair and looked directly at the boy, shaking his head from time to time with a look of displeasure. Jackson's father, sitting in the front row, sat with his chin in his hands, listening intently, as members of the eight-woman, four-man jury scribbled notes.

On Monday, the accuser's brother testified that on two occasions in early 2003, he had walked into Jackson's bedroom at Neverland and found the singer masturbating with one hand, while his other hand was down his sleeping brother's pants. The brother also testified that there was an alarm in the hallway leading to the bedroom that would ring a bell in the bedroom if anyone approached.( Monday's testimony)

Under cross-examination Tuesday, the brother said he had never seen Jackson disable the bell. The brother said he had heard the bell when he would enter Jackson's bedroom. But the accuser's brother insisted that if the door to the bedroom was closed, the bell would not have been audible in the bedroom.

Mesereau also accused the brother of changing his story about what Jackson did to his brother, pointing to statements he made to a therapist and the grand jury that variously put Jackson's hand on top of the accuser's underwear, rather than inside, or had Jackson touching and rubbing the brother's buttocks, rather than his crotch.

The brother denied changing his story, but he also told Mesereau that he didn't remember making some of those other statements.
Questions over deposition

Under questioning by prosecutors, the brother had also testified that his father had abused him and other members of his family and that his parents often fought with each other. Mesereau challenged that testimony with a deposition the brother gave four years ago in a civil suit in which he said his mother and father never fought and that his father never hit him.

The brother said his statements in the deposition weren't true. When asked by Mesereau whether anyone had told him to lie in the deposition, he said, "I don't remember. It happened a long time ago."

He gave a similar response when Mesereau asked the brother to tell the jury why he lied.

"I don't remember. It's like five years ago. I don't remember nothing," the accuser's brother said.

The civil case stemmed from a December 15, 2000, altercation between the boys' mother and a security guard in the parking lot of a J.C. Penney store, after Jackson's accuser was accused of shoplifting. The mother sued the store, claiming that she had been manhandled by guards, and received a $100,000 settlement.

The defense has pointed to the civil suit as evidence that the boys' mother has a history of making claims of abuse for financial gain.

On Monday, the brother testified that on an airplane trip from Florida to California, he saw his brother and Jackson drinking alcohol, saying that he saw a red ring around a 7-Up can from which the accuser was drinking.

But Mesereau pointed to a transcript of an interview that the brother gave police, in which he said the wine in the can was white, not red.

"Do you think the court reporter made a mistake?" Mesereau asked.

"Yes," the brother answered.

The brother also gave conflicting statements when pressed by Mesereau on whether he knew Larry Feldman, a Los Angeles attorney who assisted the family when they came forward with the allegations against Jackson.

The brother first said he knew Feldman, then later said he didn't recall the name. Then, he said he didn't recall meeting Feldman but later admitted that he had met with him twice, before saying that he didn't remember if he had met Feldman.
Brother: Jackson warned about speaking out

Tuesday's court session began with Santa Barbara County District Attorney Thomas Sneddon finishing his questioning of the brother.

The brother said Jackson warned him and his brother to keep quiet about what went on between them at the Neverland.

"Don't tell anything that happened, not even if they put a gun to your head," the brother quoted Jackson as saying.

Jackson, 46, arrived at the Santa Maria courthouse Tuesday morning, accompanied by his mother, Katherine, his father, Joseph, and his brother, Jermaine. He was wearing a black suit with a black vest, with a chain dangling around his waist.

He was indicted in April by a state grand jury on 10 felony counts for incidents that allegedly occurred in February and March 2003: Four counts of committing a lewd act on a child; one count of conspiracy to commit child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion; one count of attempting to commit a lewd act on a child; and four counts of administering an intoxicating agent to assist in the commission of a felony.

Jackson has pleaded not guilty to the charges.

[siewjang]

The more I look at him, the more nightmare I get. His face is all cacat now. He's just some celebrity that is why ppl is making a fuss over him. I think he's guilty - important? neh...

p/s: Even if you don't get 98'ers I will still be here to support.

[athena]

if i rmbr correctly, the state changed its laws after the 1993, so that this time, MJ, cannot pay off his accuser...have to face court! so to them, making Jackson pay for his 'crime' must be a big deal!

thanks jang

[Sarah]

Yeah I also think its not important..

Wah, Jang, you're so kind to 98ers... :)

[euj]

i think it's very important whether he's guilty or not cos paedophilia is a very serious and detestable crime. on the hand, we may never know if he is guilty or not. first of all, as such a big celebrity it can either work for him or against him. and who knows what the motives of the accuser is. whether he has his family forcing him to accuse MJ or whether it's true. but it is important - paedophilia is disgusting and should never be condoned. on the other hand, if MJ is not guilty, he should have a chance for the world to know that too...

[siewjang]

I've spotted Sasha's signature. She/he supported MJ. Maybe she/he have something to say about MJ.

p/s: Here's another contribution to you guys.

[athena]

sasha's a girl ;)

[KoChun]

Who is Sasha?

[euj]

if i rmbr correctly, the state changed its laws after the 1993, so that this time, MJ, cannot pay off his accuser...have to face court! so to them, making Jackson pay for his 'crime' must be a big deal!

thanks jang
paying off an accuser doesn't make him guilty. for such a private person, he might just have been trying to protect his privacy cos once you go to court, it's really tough and it can get very nasty and intrusive...

[siewjang]

Euj, this reminds me of Anwar Ibrahim's case. the police had all the evidence against him (plus the mattress too). After 5 years (i think so) they found that he's not guilty. What do you think? Crazy huh.

[athena]

euj, got a point there. however, for MJ to have a fair trial, is this possible?

[siewjang]

paying off an accuser doesn't make him guilty. for such a private person, he might just have been trying to protect his privacy cos once you go to court, it's really tough and it can get very nasty and intrusive...
True but it's such a huge sum of money.

[euj]

Euj, this reminds me of Anwar Ibrahim's case. the police had all the evidence against him (plus the mattress too). After 5 years (i think so) they found that he's not guilty. What do you think? Crazy huh.
don't really know the details of the anwar case in detail, except that it was probably more politically motivated. the sodomy law is so stupid and there are so many homosexuals around in malaysia anyway. why target just one guy and with such a heavy penalty? it's BS like that that'll stop me from ever moving back to Malaysia...

[siewjang]

Euj, so you think MJ is guilty or innocent?

[euj]

euj, got a point there. however, for MJ to have a fair trial, is this possible?
yeah, don't think it's possible. so how?

[KoChun]

Who is MJ? Mary Jane Watson as in Spiderman? :p

[athena]

yeah, don't think it's possible. so how?
hmm...that's the million-dorrah question...this is a very high profile case..involves not only MJ as the celebrity. key witnesses includes martin bashir and jay leno.. :unsure: .

[athena]

Who is MJ? Mary Jane Watson as in Spiderman? :p
aiyo kochun,, eessh!!!

[KoChun]

aiyo kochun,, eessh!!!
Why eessh!!!! leh?

[athena]

so what' do u think? innocent or guilty? important ornot?

[Voon Chan]

so what' do u think? innocent or guilty? important ornot?It is a ver diificult case that is based on purely circumstantial facts & sworn statements.

50-50 chances.

Important. As lively hood of a person is involved

[euj]

Euj, so you think MJ is guilty or innocent?
with what little i know, i reckon he's not guilty. sounds like he's just an innocent guy with a screwed-up childhood who never grew up, has strange habits and is very naive.

[euj]

True but it's such a huge sum of money.
some people really value their privacy i guess...

[KoChun]

so what' do u think? innocent or guilty? important ornot?
I think he's innocent. Anyway, not important to me.

[athena]

hmm...well my personal opinion is that MJ is not guilty but he is not innocent either. i feel there are events that lead to this. The mom wouldn't have anything to pin on to MJ! but i feel the media is playing up the hype of this case.

nonetheless, MJ is ONE of the Greatest Entertainer ever LIVED!!!

[siewjang]

with what little i know, i reckon he's not guilty. sounds like he's just an innocent guy with a screwed-up childhood who never grew up, has strange habits and is very naive.
If he does it means he's guilty. Law does not care whether you had a screwed-up childhood or not unless you are deem wacko.

[siewjang]

hmm...well my personal opinion is that MJ is not guilty but he is not innocent either. ...
Athena, what makes you say that MJ is ot guilty?

[athena]

why not guilty? hmm..based only on what i have read so far lor...

[Diong_Gar_Loon]

http://www.animationer.dk/6/m/michael.gif

[fishboy]

why isn't he doing his infamous crotch grabbing?

[[f]ish]

if MJ isn't such a big celebrity, for me i'd be thinking more to he's guilty.. it isnt worth that much effort to 'frame' or to simply accuse some small peanuts unless that person is really guilty..

but now, since he's a pop-star and further more has tons of money.. hhmm i myself will have the thought that the accusers might be taking opportunity to suck his fortune out of him.. anyway, after thinking for maybe 5 mins while reading his news in paper, i don't care much anyway.. why wanna trouble myself so much with this news when i have lots of other things to trouble myself with? hehe.. :laugh:

but a good topic to discuss anyway...

[[f]ish]

why isn't he doing his infamous crotch grabbing?

no sound effect no point..

[athena]

ish']if MJ isn't such a big celebrity, for me i'd be thinking more to he's guilty.. it isnt worth that much effort to 'frame' or to simply accuse some small peanuts unless that person is really guilty..

but now, since he's a pop-star and further more has tons of money.. hhmm i myself will have the thought that the accusers might be taking opportunity to suck his fortune out of him.. anyway, after thinking for maybe 5 mins while reading his news in paper, i don't care much anyway.. why wanna trouble myself so much with this news when i have lots of other things to trouble myself with? hehe.. :laugh:

but a good topic to discuss anyway...
hahaa..the power of media..now it is not proven yet that MJ is guilty, but i can see that many have the idea that he's NOT guilty and his accuser is just in for the money...so if MJ is guilty, he's going scot-free!!! :laugh:

[Diong_Gar_Loon]

MJ touched my ass last night. I want to sue the hamsap fellow. Any lawyers in here.

[athena]

MJ touched my ass last night. I want to sue the hamsap fellow. Any lawyers in here.
sorry dear, you are outside his target age group!! haha :p

[fishboy]

MJ touched my ass last night. I want to sue the hamsap fellow. Any lawyers in here.
where did it happened? Your hse or Neverland?? :D

[Diong_Gar_Loon]

sorry dear, you are outside his target age group!! haha :p
my ass is still 12 years old.

[Diong_Gar_Loon]

where did it happened? Your hse or Neverland?? :D
i don't wanna talk about it right now. *sob*

[athena]

my ass is still 12 years old.
haha..what happened to the other 14 yrs? u lived without one? :laugh:

[Diong_Gar_Loon]

haha..what happened to the other 14 yrs? u lived without one? :laugh:
my ass aged slower than the rest of my body. don't belief ask MJ himself/

[athena]

my ass aged slower than the rest of my body. don't belief ask MJ himself/
haha..ok ok..no need... ;)

[[f]ish]

i don't wanna talk about it right now. *sob*

i don't think so MJ touched his arse.. maybe someone else did.. hhmm.. :rolleyes:

[athena]

ish']i don't think so MJ touched his arse.. maybe someone else did.. hhmm.. :rolleyes:
who did it?

[siewjang]

DGL, you want your a$$ to be skew?

OUT OF TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kamkuey]

who did it?
It wasn't me....

[[f]ish]

It wasn't me....

eerr.. kamkuey.. eerr.. no one said it was u.. hhmm.. :rolleyes:

[Sila]

i am leaning towards MJ being guilty. because he is pretty screwed up. i think he molests little boys probably because he tried so hard not to grow up and remain a boy too - so in a sense he is trying to molest himself. look at what he's done to his own self - it is no surprise that others are being hurt in the process. i think his father is the one who should be imprisoned and that MJ should be found guilty but send to high security shrink facility.

[LiLiaN]

didn't even bother to follow the case... too much media hype...

[athena]

sila,i like ur suggestion ;)

[Sila]

sila,i like ur suggestion ;)
he freaks me out - i have been trying not to pay attention to the trial reports but it's hard. i feel bad for him but i also feel bad for all those kids who have been hurt by him. i do believe he's not innocent - whether this particular accuser is telling the truth or not, i don't think MJ is innocent :(

poor messed up man that he is..

[athena]

iguess, the person messed up ain't just MJ, the kid's mom is also sick in the head...which mother would send her son to a psycho? sheesh! :mad:

[daBoss]

who cares if he's guilty - i got 2 mortgages to pay and 2 children to feed... :D

[sasha]

First time, may be some mistakes. But second time, Don't think I believe him anymore. According to the news here, even his lawyers are asking him to plead guilty, as the polices have all the evidence against him, yet he said he won't plead guilty as he "loves" them..

Well.. watever it is, its NOT important!

Ppl rise, ppl fall..

maybe he did got naked and stuff, but he is not guilty to me.i just think he is a big kid who put himself as the same level as the 13 year old boy,like a teenage. if u and ur gf got naked in a room and touch each other just for the fun of testing it..can u accuse ur gf for molesting u. i think a 13 year old is old enough to know wats wrong when they got molested and stop visiting him. its jut my opinion, tho he might be charged guilty, but he shouldn't be.he has done much great deed than harm to this world. i just feel its not fair and not right

[athena]

haha my dear sasha...a 13 yr-old boy and a 13 yr-old girl getting naked is acceptable..but a 40 yr old man and a 13 yr old boy? ain't it weird?

[[f]ish]

haha my dear sasha...a 13 yr-old boy and a 13 yr-old girl getting naked is acceptable..but a 40 yr old man and a 13 yr old boy? ain't it weird?

good question..

*looks at sasha and awaiting her answer*

[dontbullshit]

haha my dear sasha...a 13 yr-old boy and a 13 yr-old girl getting naked is acceptable..but a 40 yr old man and a 13 yr old boy? ain't it weird?

Can hijack a little bit ahh... How come you ppl so prejudice towards MJ one... After all you ppl once heard and bought his songs whattt

[athena]

Can hijack a little bit ahh... How come you ppl so prejudice towards MJ one... After all you ppl once heard and bought his songs whattt
dontbullshit, 1st of all...you're most welcome to hijack the thread...98ers hv got not much pulse..haha..
2nd: i love MJ as an entertainer. He's one of my favourite! but that doesn't mean that he is correct in what he did. I am not saying he's guilty. But i'm not saying he's INNOCENT either. As an adult, he should know what is wrong and what is not wrong. If he wants to continue living his "childhood", he can but leave "sex" alone!

[sasha]

haha my dear sasha...a 13 yr-old boy and a 13 yr-old girl getting naked is acceptable..but a 40 yr old man and a 13 yr old boy? ain't it weird?


was busy a moment ago..

maybe tats why i said he is a big kid wanted to fit in into the 13 year old's world.by being what he think they are being and behaving at 13.
its very disturbing to see media making money out of his news. he not perfect. every little small mistakes he made he get penalised which we all makes everyday, tangling babies. wat a bullshit, yea he put his baby out of excitement,and so, he is just another human..he not super perfect.and plp make it sound like he ate the whole baby in public.internet, newspaper, tv,cnn, everywhere.

goodness. those plp should be so ashame of themselves having nothing else better to do.

[Alkapocino]

It is important that we will learn something from the incident. Can't spell it out though. Leave the judgement to the Honorable Judge and let GOD be his judge.

I adore Michael for his outstanding talents and it's really sad to see him in this position. Really sad.

[athena]

was busy a moment ago..

maybe tats why i said he is a big kid wanted to fit in into the 13 year old's world.by being what he think they are being and behaving at 13.
its very disturbing to see media making money out of his news. he not perfect. every little small mistakes he made he get penalised which we all makes everyday, tangling babies. wat a bullshit, yea he put his baby out of excitement,and so, he is just another human..he not super perfect.and plp make it sound like he ate the whole baby in public.internet, newspaper, tv,cnn, everywhere.

goodness. those plp should be so ashame of themselves having nothing else better to do.
so you're saying that he's behaving and thinking like a 13 yr old. so it is acceptable?

being in an asylum, would be the best option for him. regardless of him being a superstar or not!

[sasha]

dont u see? plp who has temporary mental problem are not guilty of their act, he seems just like a kid in a man body to me.he should be treated not jailed.

after all, wat harm he did to plp till everyone must call him wacko jacko .
wat kinda civilise world is this when the terms can be call so publicly, there is no even a human respect for him.

[sasha]

so you're saying that he's behaving and thinking like a 13 yr old. so it is acceptable?

being in an asylum, would be the best option for him. regardless of him being a superstar or not!


is behaving and thinking like a 13 yr old a crime?

[athena]

so you too agrees that he NEEDS to be treated. i do agree with you taht the world can be quite harsh when it comes to MJ.
like i mentioned b4. MJ is sick in the head. but the mom of the accuser is even more sick to leave her child with a screwed up person!

[athena]

is behaving and thinking like a 13 yr old a crime?
in his case, def. yes! his intentions (unproven) is sexual in nature! there is a term called paedophile!

[sasha]

so you too agrees that he NEEDS to be treated. i do agree with you taht the world can be quite harsh when it comes to MJ.
like i mentioned b4. MJ is sick in the head. but the mom of the accuser is even more sick to leave her child with a screwed up person!


yea.. ath,i feel a proper way is treatment, not punishment now.it has not been fair.the mom's a greed. if she does care bout her children, then why only now after MJ stop giving her money to shut her mouth up, only she seek justice for her children.

[sasha]

in his case, def. yes! his intentions (unproven) is sexual in nature! there is a term called paedophile!

i guess then by law, its guilty.he did fondle the kid privates.and only male kids.

[athena]

i guess then by law, its guilty.he did fondle the kid privates.and only male kids.
ok..haha now i dun see which part u say MJ is innocent. please explain.

[sasha]

but a 13 year old.......is not so kid to me anymore la..its form 1 aready.its teenage. if its true,why must they still keep visiting him, tis i dont get much.

[sasha]

ok..haha now i dun see which part u say MJ is innocent. please explain.

innocent to me,is an act with no intention of harm.

[athena]

innocent to me,is an act with no intention of harm.
murder<--killing with intention
manslaughter <--killing WITHOUT intention

both are punisable under the LAW....

perhaps some lawyers can shed some light on this matter,

dontbullshit, VC?

[dontbullshit]

Based on the newspaper reports, looks like MJ may be acquitted without defence being called. Key prosecution witnesses i.e. the sister and the boy himself have been contradicting themselves during evidence. Material contradictions.. How to believe their stories? One day say one thing...Well that's how defence counsels work i.e. to lead the prosecution witnesses to lie and contradict in evidence & walla... an acquittal.

[dontbullshit]

murder<--killing with intention
manslaughter <--killing WITHOUT intention

both are punisable under the LAW....


both are punishable under the law but under different sections of the penal code. Murder carries mandatory death penalty, manslaughther carries max. 20 years and whipping. For murder, the intention that you mean is to cause hurt which you may know will lead to someone's death, in layman's term. For manslaughter, the intention here is only to cause hurt but somehow that fellow KOed what. Thin line hah..

[sasha]

murder<--killing with intention
manslaughter <--killing WITHOUT intention

both are punisable under the LAW....

perhaps some lawyers can shed some light on this matter,

dontbullshit, VC?

manslaughter <--killing WITHOUT intention

there is a cause and effect from the action, killing without intention is innocent, however it causes a great lost. punishment comes from the effect of it.

in MJ case, his act has not been an act at the extend till he is not forgivable.

only right if he is being brought to treatment.have u not read the news when a boy was been killed by a driver in a accident, and he was jailed only for 7 weeks.why he is so easily forgivable , and not for MJ.

[sasha]

both are punishable under the law but under different sections of the penal code. Murder carries mandatory death penalty, manslaughther carries max. 20 years and whipping. For murder, the intention that you mean is to cause hurt which you may know will lead to someone's death, in layman's term. For manslaughter, the intention here is only to cause hurt but somehow that fellow KOed what. Thin line hah..

if there is an intention of harm then its not an innocent act

[athena]

manslaughter <--killing WITHOUT intention

there is a cause and effect from the action, killing without intention is innocent, however it causes a great lost. punishment comes from the effect of it.

in MJ case, his act has not been an act at the extend till he is not forgivable.

only right if he is being brought to treatment.have u not read the news when a boy was been killed by a driver in a accident, and he was jailed only for 7 weeks.why he is so easily forgivable , and not for MJ.
wah..this is truly to 'chim' for me...really gotta hv some profession to answer liao...let's wait for dontbullshit!

[sasha]

ah well.....im nto a lawyer, no anybody, just someone who have a lot of humanity issue.

[athena]

well, in legal aspect tak boleh..but i feel, a grown adult, if wanna indulge in his fantasies ok...no prob..dun go and fondle innocent boys!! the emotional scar on the boy is not visible.... but it exists..if MJ has a right to his fantasies. the boy has a RIGHT to not being sexually harmed!!

[sasha]

well, in legal aspect tak boleh..but i feel, a grown adult, if wanna indulge in his fantasies ok...no prob..dun go and fondle innocent boys!! the emotional scar on the boy is not visible.... but it exists..if MJ has a right to his fantasies. the boy has a RIGHT to not being sexually harmed!!

u know, as far as i read the news,i never see the boy saying "NO,DONT TOUCH ME!" .

i tot the boys let him do so.who knows they just playing naive games with each other,and when the boys goes bek home, and tells the mother,the mum would think

" wat?? a 40 years old and a 13 years old?? its paedophile!"

but if a 13 years old and a 13 years old, its ok,they are just naive boys.

so,tats wat i just think, he just a big kid in a man body.not knowing tat he cannot act as a 13 at 40.

and besides,if this should be behind bars, the boy mum should also be behind bars.who has she got to blame,allowing the scene to happen over and over.

[dontbullshit]

manslaughter <--killing WITHOUT intention

there is a cause and effect from the action, killing without intention is innocent, however it causes a great lost. punishment comes from the effect of it.

"Killing without intention" is not innocent. That's why have to "Cho Kam".

[athena]

and besides,if this should be behind bars, the boy mum should also be behind bars.who has she got to blame,allowing the scene to happen over and over.

this i COMPLETLY agree!!!!!

[[f]ish]

Can hijack a little bit ahh... How come you ppl so prejudice towards MJ one... After all you ppl once heard and bought his songs whattt

wah!! another MJ supporter.. cool!!

not you ALL lah.. just some. :) i'm neutral.. hehe

[[f]ish]

if there is an intention of harm then its not an innocent act

just a question sasha.. hhmm.. it's not that i'm against MJ or whatsoever.. but just wondering...

what makes u so certain that he has NO ill-intention towards that kid? we might not know what's in his mind at that time or even now.. unless we are very close to him or maybe we are his relatives..

[dontbullshit]

ish']wah!! another MJ supporter.. cool!!

not you ALL lah.. just some. :) i'm neutral.. hehe

Don't say like thatlah.. I'm looking the whole case at a broader picturemah..

[athena]

"Killing without intention" is not innocent. That's why have to "Cho Kam".
hey dontbullshit, i've got a question for u. if two minors had sex, willingly, are they punishable? it's statutory(think i got the spelling wrong) rape isn't it? know if one is not a minor, def statutory...correct ah?

[sasha]

looking at him ,it just feel speechless........

an innocent man at heart, so innocent,he was charged guilty.

then again,only god knows everything.

[sasha]

"Killing without intention" is not innocent. That's why have to "Cho Kam".

when there is no intention, why is it not innocent? even killing just for the fun of it is with intention.

[sasha]

ish']just a question sasha.. hhmm.. it's not that i'm against MJ or whatsoever.. but just wondering...

what makes u so certain that he has NO ill-intention towards that kid? we might not know what's in his mind at that time or even now.. unless we are very close to him or maybe we are his relatives..

i know, i guess its just intuition.

i admire his song since i was in form 2, loves his songs, they not like those love song from michael learns to rock or west life, u know where the lyrics will be such like dont break my heart or baby,u make my heart cry in blood, or i cry like a river or im totally torn apart..so on and so on...so much bullshit...

they just purely love for the world.tats where i find him very different from the rest of them.

i like his mum. i watch the interview with MJ parents.his dad a total loser.but his mum speaks from the heart

well...its just my own thoughts.

:sad-2:

[athena]

i admire his song since i was in form 2, loves his songs, they not like those love song from michael learns to rock or west life, u know where the lyrics will be such like dont break my heart or baby,u make my heart cry in blood, or i cry like a river or im totally torn apart..so on and so on...so much bullshit...





muahahahhaha..... :p

[sasha]

muahahahhaha..... :p

:D we reaching page 10 liao..
see MJ is so hot everywhere..haha

but i gtg now, see doc. take care athe. nice sharing things with ya guys. :)

[dontbullshit]

hey dontbullshit, i've got a question for u. if two minors had sex, willingly, are they punishable? it's statutory(think i got the spelling wrong) rape isn't it? know if one is not a minor, def statutory...correct ah?

To answer your question, I shall assume that the girl is below 16 and the boy be below 21. If the boy have sex with any girl below 16, it's statutory rape regardless whether there is consent given or not. Then, the boy may be charged in the Juvenile Court. If found guilty, probably end up at Henry Gurney School for some years, don't have to do time & whipping. If boy above 21, normal court and if convicted, cho kam and whipping you know..If the girl is above 16, it's ok.

[athena]

To answer your question, I shall assume that the girl is below 16 and the boy be below 21. If the boy have sex with any girl below 16, it's statutory rape regardless whether there is consent given or not. Then, the boy may be charged in the Juvenile Court. If found guilty, probably end up at Henry Gurney School for some years, don't have to do time & whipping. If boy above 21, normal court and if convicted, cho kam and whipping you know..If the girl is above 16, it's ok.
the gal nothing ah?

[dontbullshit]

the gal nothing ah?

The girl masi get pregnantlohh. Isn't that punishment already?

[athena]

The girl masi get pregnantlohh. Isn't that punishment already?
nowadays kids so well informed, mesti ada contraceptive mah!

[dontbullshit]

nowadays kids so well informed, mesti ada contraceptive mah!

Then masi just lie down and enjoy it onlylohh

[athena]

Then masi just lie down and enjoy it onlylohh
ahhaa...ok ok..explaination enuf. thanks :)

so you think MJ will be acquitted?

[dontbullshit]

Looks like it. It resembles one case which I helped my boss back in the year 2000. Don't know whether you remember a case popularly known as "Bangsar Maid In the Cage" case. In that case, the maid, the key prosecution witness was telling different versions of stories and contradicting statements. The case by the prosecution was thrown out without the accused to enter their defence.

[athena]

i have not..maybe can give some key points of the case?

[dontbullshit]

A maid whose contract was expiring was found by some police officers to be at the kitchen. The kitchen compartment was grilled to discourage any thiefs/robbers from coming into the house from the back. At the time when the incident happened, the door from the dining room leading to the kitchen was closed (not locked, I think). So, the maid took the opportunity to accuse her employers and claimed that she had been locked in the kitchen for more than 100 over days with limited supply of food. Kena makan roti basi, & sometimes tidak diberi makan.. However, the fact was she had many occasions visited supermarket i.e. at Bangsar Shopping Center, clinics and even walking outside the compound of the house. If she had been confined illegally, she could have run away given the opportunities. However, she did not. Her act was contradictory to her claim. Therefore, the Court held that her credibility was at stake and acquitted her employers.

[athena]

wahlau...so dangerous to EVEN have a maid...dem vicious these ppl!

[dontbullshit]

So, be your maid yourselflahh

[athena]

terpaksa lor....boh lui to hire maid....scared also..so bohpian...jadi sendiri punya mui chai! :(

[KoChun]

Eh, BohPian's name is mentioned here?

Long time no see him liao, after those anagram threads.

[dontbullshit]

wahlau...so dangerous to EVEN have a maid...dem vicious these ppl!

Lesson here: don't even scold your maid if your maid put some shit and cook the same with your vege. Otherwise, one fine day your maid can create a story against you..

[athena]

if my maid is lazy i won't scold too much lor...but put some shit into myfood? straight away 'chao chao chao'!!! :mad:

[dontbullshit]

if my maid is lazy i won't scold too much lor...but put some shit into myfood? straight away 'chao chao chao'!!! :mad:

How do you know lahh. By the time you discover the shit, you may have 50% of the shit in your stomachlahh..

[athena]

How do you know lahh. By the time you discover the shit, you may have 50% of the shit in your stomachlahh..
play safe...dun let maid cook!

[dontbullshit]

play safe...dun let maid cook!

You cook ahh. only maggi mee and telur goreng onlykut...

[athena]

You cook ahh. only maggi mee and telur goreng onlykut...
dontbullshit. you tak kenal me also, how uknow i cannot cook ?

[dontbullshit]

dontbullshit. you tak kenal me also, how uknow i cannot cook ?

Sixth sense mannn.

[athena]

Sixth sense mannn.
ur sensor tak boleh pakai...hehe i can cook wan!

[dontbullshit]

ur sensor tak boleh pakai...hehe i can cook wan!

Most women are lousy cooks. "Tai Tung Kung" (Happy Ending) at Channel 34 Astro proves the point right?

[LiLiaN]

from MJ to house maid.... :huh:

[LiLiaN]

uh oh, MJ in trouble... he's not at court on time and now got only another 1/2 hour to appear in court otherwise he'll be getting bench arrest and his bail forfeited!!!

[dontbullshit]

uh oh, MJ in trouble... he's not at court on time and now got only another 1/2 hour to appear in court otherwise he'll be getting bench arrest and his bail forfeited!!!

Wah you ppl champions lahh. This thing oso you know

[athena]

ooOOo MJ accuser gave graphic description of how MJ 'stimulated' him....hmmm....very similar to 1993's case la...

[[f]ish]

when there is no intention, why is it not innocent? even killing just for the fun of it is with intention.


unless they can prove MJ to be a psychotic, if not, sure guilty.

that's why they said crazy ppl kill another person is not guilty.. i think more to murder eh? dunno about manslaughter..

anyway.. for a sane person, kill is kill loh.. the end justify the means mah i think.. :unsure:

[[f]ish]

ooOOo MJ accuser gave graphic description of how MJ 'stimulated' him....hmmm....very similar to 1993's case la...

details.. details pls.. hehe :)

anyway, now i think i starting to understand what u guys meant by acquited thingy.. it's something like a cat tell u it won't eat fish loh.. but where got cat don't eat fish one? :rolleyes: right arr? :unsure:

[athena]

acquital is given, when the man who is being charged is set free! correct ah dontbullshit?

[dontbullshit]

acquital is given, when the man who is being charged is set free! correct ah dontbullshit?

Very smart... when acquittal is granted, he cannot be charged again for the same offence based on the same facts.

[athena]

hahahaha...loyar buruk skill boleh pakai lagi..hehe..maklumla two cousins are lawyers :D

[dtchieng]

Very smart... when acquittal is granted, he cannot be charged again for the same offence based on the same facts.
that's why the authority had to dig and filter for new stuff to build new case against him loh... and cannot carry forward whatever was used in the previous trial..
one question to the lawyers: Since his previous charge was settled outside court, does that amount to acquital as well? or just "thrown out of court" /dismissed?

[athena]

DT, i think it's not acquitted...but i'm just a loyar buruk! :D

[dtchieng]

if it wasn't an acquittal but just a dismissal, then there shouldn't be a problem of using the oled materials against him... as i said, that's if it wasn't an acquittal...
lawyers, can confirm ah?

[athena]

probably, the two cases are not directly related kut..different accuser mah...but do u follow his trial?

[dtchieng]

no la... just general info i know la...

[athena]

ok...but what do u think, based on what you've seen /hear so far? guilty or not guilty?

btw, did u watch martin bashir's interview?

[dtchieng]

guilty or not? i don't follow the trial, so, i cannot say... but s dun like MJ all d same.. gives me the creeps.. at the same time, i pity him alot.
I watched Bashirs interview, that's why i say i have some pity for MJ, i think he should be screened to see whether he got autism or not... child trap in adult body, livin gin a fantasy created by himself... :rolleyes:

[athena]

hmm..i think MJ is mentally ill...autism or not, i tend to believe he's not.

[LiLiaN]

Wah you ppl champions lahh. This thing oso you knowaiyoh, radio on in the lab, every hour got news, heard it mah... sky news even worse, they use actors to reconstruct the highlights of the case and show it everyday!

[athena]

aiyoh, radio on in the lab, every hour got news, heard it mah... sky news even worse, they use actors to reconstruct the highlights of the case and show it everyday!
eh? that one not CourtTV ah?

[LiLiaN]

hmm..i think MJ is mentally ill...autism or not, i tend to believe he's not.i don't think by this stage anyone can really pinpoint what's wrong with him... such a shame, for he was such a good entertainer... :(

[LiLiaN]

eh? that one not CourtTV ah?no lar... i think court not allowed filming due to sensitive issue that kids are involved... so as far as i know, sky uses actors reconstruction...

[Sila]

when there is no intention, why is it not innocent? even killing just for the fun of it is with intention.
even if MJ had no intention, that poor boy was hurt. he was not 13 when he was molested. he was younger. he is NOW 13. if you had a 13 year old son, would you sit around while a 40 year old man touched him inappropriately? this causes harm to the child - and besides, how many of these abuse cases become a vicious cycle? now this poor child MJ hurt can turn around and be a child molester when he's an adult. intent or no intent, he needs to get help and take RESPONSIBILITY. should another 40 year old man (not MJ) also be acquitted if he molests a young boy? or we say this man is guilty but MJ is not because he wrote and sang wonderful songs? (i am actually a big fan of MJ's earlier works, including during the Jackson 5).

a child cannot say no to an adult. i know that if i was 10 and an adult my parents trusted told me to do things, i would have done it! we are taught to respect our "elders", and when the elder breaks this trust, so much damage is done..

[dragoncity99]

Oh my goodnes, could Michael Jantan have done that?
I wonder what's the fun in him molesting little kids. He's so sick man.

I think pity him too, because, he's confused after so many plastic surgery. Probably his nerve's was wrongly connected by the docs. Dont' blame him fully. Blame the doc too. To o much drugs makes Michael Jantan becomes Michael Bapuk i guess??? How come ppl never think of this? No checks on his medical history? No?

[Hades]

i have no comments about mj, juz popped in to say hi....muahahaha